Thread: Health Care Reform; States suing as unconstitutional

Please excuse a dumb brit for asking, but why is every one so against the system?
Coming from a country where this system is already in place, and works. and where could i find out some details about this new system?

Originally Posted by BigIan

Please excuse a dumb brit for asking, but why is every one so against the system?
Coming from a country where this system is already in place, and works. and where could i find out some details about this new system?

I believe it is primarily the idea of being forced to pay for something, especially something that one doesn't necessarily want or need, in this case health care insurance (some people can pay out-of-pocket, some do not use traditional western medicine, etc..) and to be punished for not complying.

This flies against the face of what many Americans believe to be freedom. You may argue Social Security, fire departments, police, military, post office, etc... but to do so only demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how and why this country, the United States, was founded. There are plenty of books on the subject for anyone having a sincere desire to study the subject.

Originally Posted by BigIan

Please excuse a dumb brit for asking, but why is every one so against the system?
Coming from a country where this system is already in place, and works. and where could i find out some details about this new system?

Ian,

In England, were you forced to buy health insurance from private compaines or was it provided by the government and paid for through taxes? There's a substantial difference.

Originally Posted by BigIan

Please excuse a dumb brit for asking, but why is every one so against the system?
Coming from a country where this system is already in place, and works. and where could i find out some details about this new system?

Here is a book I read that helped me greatly in understanding some of the how's and whys of the United States:

Amazon.com: Novus Ordo Seclorum: The Intellectual Origins of the Constitution (9780700603114): Forrest McDonald: Books

If you are truly interested in beginning to understand why many Americans are against the health care bill, books like this one will help you.

ok here is my take on this whole debacle.....being in the military i already recive the "healthcare package".....and im not gonna pull any punches IT SUCKS! on the outside before i came in i had my own health coverage it was expensive but it was top notch i went to the dentist every 6 months with only a 20$ co payment now in the military i only get to the dentist once a year. on the outside if i got sick i called made my apointment for the following day. in the military i get told alot that we dotn have any avalible slots for over a week. many times if we get some sort of injury you get a large bottle of 800mg motrin and get sent on your way, when you finally get an apointment. so from my experinces when i get hurt i go to the local ER get treated by a better doctor right away.then i schedule an apointment which is usually a wait of several days to a week plus. and start the paper work for the ER vist and get that taken care of....so when i get out of the military i dont ever want the same healthcare again i would rather spend the money and have quality health coverage and not be hurt for a week before getting seen by a doctor..........i have a bad feeling that this is the type of healthcare this country is being forced into....the old saying comes into play here on this....you get what you pay for

Originally Posted by honedright

I believe it is primarily the idea of being forced to pay for something, especially something that one doesn't necessarily want or need, in this case health care insurance (some people can pay out-of-pocket, some do not use traditional western medicine, etc..) and to be punished for not complying.

This flies against the face of what many Americans believe to be freedom. You may argue Social Security, fire departments, police, military, post office, etc... but to do so only demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how and why this country, the United States, was founded. There are plenty of books on the subject for anyone having a sincere desire to study the subject.

That's all taxes, though. I'll pay for my military to protect me. I don't think this nation was founded on the idea of imperialism.

We don't choose where our tax dollars go. Anything funded by tax dollars can be seen as things we are forced to pay for and can be punished for not complying.

Originally Posted by BAMARACING8

ok here is my take on this whole debacle.....being in the military i already recive the "healthcare package".....and im not gonna pull any punches IT SUCKS! on the outside before i came in i had my own health coverage it was expensive but it was top notch i went to the dentist every 6 months with only a 20$ co payment now in the military i only get to the dentist once a year. on the outside if i got sick i called made my apointment for the following day. in the military i get told alot that we dotn have any avalible slots for over a week. many times if we get some sort of injury you get a large bottle of 800mg motrin and get sent on your way, when you finally get an apointment. so from my experinces when i get hurt i go to the local ER get treated by a better doctor right away.then i schedule an apointment which is usually a wait of several days to a week plus. and start the paper work for the ER vist and get that taken care of....so when i get out of the military i dont ever want the same healthcare again i would rather spend the money and have quality health coverage and not be hurt for a week before getting seen by a doctor..........i have a bad feeling that this is the type of healthcare this country is being forced into....the old saying comes into play here on this....you get what you pay for

The system works the way its made to work, it is not true that because the health care is more socialized it will be with lesser quality. It will be of lesser quality if the standards are not held high. I come from Europe and never had problems seeing a doctor, or any dentist that I wanted.

Originally Posted by Bruce

Ian,

In England, were you forced to buy health insurance from private compaines or was it provided by the government and paid for through taxes? There's a substantial difference.

we can, if we want and can afford to, buy private insurance that will see you put to the top of waiting lists. Myself i'm having to wait 18months for facet joint injections on the NHS which i could no doubt pay for and get done all the sooner. This is not possible so i have to wait. Without our NHS, which everyone has paid into throughout their lives, our country would have an even greater rich/poor divide and no prizes for guessing who would suffer.

This is how we see your countries heath service, and dont get me wrong we only get a small glimpse of it through our tv's but to us over here it's a them and us issue and tough luck if you cant afford it.

I mean no offence its just my observation from my ordinary educational standard i.e. manual worker no qualifications

ian


IIRC we pay only 2% of gross earnings to our National insurance which covers a variety of things social

Originally Posted by commiecat

That's all taxes, though. I'll pay for my military to protect me. I don't think this nation was founded on the idea of imperialism.

We don't choose where our tax dollars go. Anything funded by tax dollars can be seen as things we are forced to pay for and can be punished for not complying.

Yes it is all taxes. And yes, we all want a military to be there to defend us. Now the question is, why was the Constitution set up with enumerated powers for Congress? My take is that the founders were concerned (actually I think they were frightened) that government would otherwise have too much power and therefore the ability to tax us to the point of interfering with our liberty. Liberty being directly proportional to property rights, property rights equating to fruits of an individual's labor - meaning how much of what one earns does one get to keep. The less one keeps equaling less liberty.

So, back to your statement that we don't choose where our tax dollars go - in that case then, where do we draw the line? Have you considered just how much power this health care bill can potentially give to Congress to tax us?

Oh BTW, not to draw us off topic, but now Amnesty for illegals is back on the table right on the tail of "free" health care. $$$$$$$$$$$$$

Honedright, in regards to your last sentence...here is a partial of another post I offered on ACORN that may be interewsting to you:

.....ACORN was tied into the SEIU, and according to investigative reports, ACORN and the SEIU (Service Employees International Union)...exchange funds back and forth.

Wade Rathke, the founder of ACORN, was ousted from ACORN because his brother took 1-million from the organization, but, instead of prosecution, was allowed to make partial resitution, (shuffle).

Wade Rathke is also with SEIU as their chief organizer...in short, ACORN going down is cool as no one can deny the corruption, however, in reality, they've probably been busy shuffling ACORN's assesst to SEIU and when it was done...they were bankrupt. Same entity...different name.

BTW, SEIU spent over $30,000,000.00 in independant funds in support of the Obama campaign and 94% of SEIU's PAC's contributions were to democratic candidates. They represent more immigrant workers than any other union in the U.S. and are big-time behind the Health Care Reform effort, (all those people who didn't have insurance that will get it now).

So, depending on how you think...this may be all fine and dandy, but, the correlations do kind of tie a few things together regarding other recent events. Like I said...shuffle...good shuffle, bad shuffle, however you think!