Thread: Health Care Reform; States suing as unconstitutional

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

They're saving you money, and saving lives. It's not stinginess. It's a complete disregard for your fellow man. Your fellow man, by the way, who have the built the entire infrastructure you can now enjoy.

Oh I have chosen to work and pay taxes for almost most of my life now, and am glad that people I've helped elect make sure a portion of those taxes is spent saving lives in constitutionally-mandated protection of rights. Please explain though how taking away my choice of funding those institutions removes my alleged stinginess and regard for my fellow man. Are you sure the way I choose to spend my money is as insidious as you say? This feels rather personal - I feel I am capable of making good choices with the money I earn, and even if I do not, isn't that a moral issue rather than a legal one?

Originally Posted by NYCshaver

I made no mention of a whine.

well then, stop complaining

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

you are making all meaningful discussion impossible by verging off into the ridiculous.

If choosing to live as freely as one with an inheritance or living freely in the woods is so ridiculous as to remove any possible meaning from the discussion, then I apologize for my part in that. I did not believe that to be the case at the outset, but I can see my error now.

I feel that liberty is about having more choices, and having them protected by a government rather than having fewer and being told how to use those I have for my own good

I just can't comprehend why you're willing to pay for things that are non-essential to a person's survival (but we consider them rights all the same), and yet not for things that ARE essential to a person's survival. Learning to read is a right, but living is not?

Offer me a better explanation. I can't find one.

Isn't this all a bit foppish?


-Rob

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

I just can't comprehend why you're willing to pay for things that are non-essential to a person's survival (but we consider them rights all the same), and yet not for things that ARE essential to a person's survival. Learning to read is a right, but living is not?

Offer me a better explanation. I can't find one.

I'm willing to pay for the essentials, and I do through various methods. But the more power the government takes from me in order to force its choice over mine, the fewer options I have available to myself to pay for those essentials (for myself and for others) as I please. I thought that ideally we elect representatives to protect our economic liberty, not restrict it

I never claimed that learning to read is a right, and I don't pay any federal taxes for public education. But the local government collects so much from me for education, I don't have any left for education. I guess if I want to free up more cash to help fund the schools, I'll have to sell my house or move out of the district where property taxes are so high.

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

You spent 20 years PAYING your student loans, not completely dismantling your life and career to work for no pay at all and plunge yourself into poverty. You could still pay those student loans doing something you enjoyed.

World of difference.

And you still haven't addressed the point that I and several others have made that it would completely destroy every aspect of the economy and punish the healthy.

You also haven't told me why you have such a vendetta against the poor.

I NEVER said, at any time, that such service for repayment of a medical service should be at the EXCLUSION of other activities such as a regular job. You assumed that on your own. And I only suggested such an arrangement in the case of any individual who had no other way to repay for services.

You , and others, haven't convinced me that such an arrangement for repayment would "completely destroy every aspect of the economy and punish the healthy." Really? That sounds ludicrous.

You assume that I have a "vendetta against the poor." No, I don't. I've been poor. What I am against is an ever growing system of permanent dependence on government assistance, which no one who has studied the history of human societies would deny, only works to keep the poor impoverished. I guess you could say that I am in the "teach a man to fish" camp, as opposed to the "give a man a fish" camp.

There is no doubt in my mind that we all face huge problems in this country, and the world. My main concern is my own, very uniquely founded, country. I believe that the answers to most, if not all, of our problems, are spelled out in the books of history. Some of us seem to think that just because we are "modern America" that our problems are somehow unique. As though human nature, and the way human societies function, has changed because our technology has changed. No, I think that we are exactly the same animal that we have always been, and that the observations of all of the great philosophers of the past are just as valid today as they were when first observed centuries ago. There are many guides and warnings that we repeatedly refuse to acknowledge to our detriment. Much like a child who refuses to listen to a parent. We get burned even though those who know better have told us not to touch that, and don't go there. But like that stubborn child, we just have to learn the hard way. Unlike that child, we are running out of second chances.

OK, off of my

In a developed nation, where we do generally believe living is a right, that simply isn't possible. That's why every other developed nation has universal health care.

You cannot guarantee another person's right to life through a cut-throat (pun not intended ) system of rich and poor. And that's what we have.

The reason you can have your nice life, with cheap internet, safe food, and general freedom from the worries of a tribal person living in the forest is because of the collective infrastructure of the developed society in which we live.

A developed society which tries to take care of your essential needs so that you have the freedom to contribute intellectually and physically however you like. Humans are creatures of the mind.

Why do you think you even have the time in the day to worry about shaving?

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

Why do you think you even have the time in the day to worry about shaving?

Ha! I don't!

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

You cannot guarantee another person's right to life through a cut-throat (pun not intended ) system of rich and poor. And that's what we have.

I agree. The government will have to guarantee that right to the best of its abilities within the limitations given it by the people, and the governed will have to provide viable solutions through smaller governments or private endeavors for any problems not given the federal government power or authority to solve.

If the voters of the US want to change the role of the constitution, they need to elect more folks willing to amend it as desired