Thread: Health Care Reform; States suing as unconstitutional

Originally Posted by honedright

Oh but guys like you are too good for that eh? You were a cop right? You could provide security services for a hospital until you debt was paid, saving the hospital extra expense.

If you can't pay your bill in dollars and cents, then pay in time and service. That is the American way.

When did America stop being the land of the free and home of the brave, and become the home of the lazy looking for handouts??

How embarrassing

4 November 2008....hope that answers your question

Originally Posted by BAMARACING8

4 November 2008....hope that answers your question

Oh you may be correct, but I suspect that date only heralded the flowering, but not the sowing. I think maybe the seeds were cast by JP. Morgan and his Jekyl Island cronies? Maybe a bit later by FDR? Who knows...

Maybe at this point it doesn't matter. What matters now is damage control.

honed i agree with you on the damage control for sure!...........it just seems that the middle class is getting shafted yet again from people being lazy wanting all the handouts..this is off topic but the other day on the news they had al sharpton and some other guy discussing how the president hasnt done enough for "black america" i am in no way trying to turn this into any sort of racial slur or debate but last time i checked this is the United States of America.....where everyone has the equal opprotunity to work hard and have a succsesful life....the point i am trying to make is when is this train wreck going to stop. people need to quit wanting a government handout and get outside and go do work

Originally Posted by BAMARACING8

people need to quit wanting a government handout and get outside and go do work

as long as handouts are available, they will be taken. And people who promise more of them seem to have good success gathering votes. in a nutshell I think that's how it works because once you offer a handout, it's tough to take it away

I'm against gov. handouts for people unwilling to pull their weight. I've voted Republican all my life, but what about the fact that an increasing number of working Americans - not lazy bums - can no longer afford their health insurance premiums - or that their employers can no longer afford to offer health plans? What about the fact that we spend far more than any other country on healthcare, but our "health" is no better? How do we fix the system before it collapses? Don't just tell me "the government can't/shouln't be involved". What does the answer involve? How do you see it happening?

Jordan

Originally Posted by jnich67

I'm against gov. handouts for people unwilling to pull their weight. I've voted Republican all my life, but what about the fact that an increasing number of working Americans - not lazy bums - can no longer afford their health insurance premiums - or that their employers can no longer afford to offer health plans? What about the fact that we spend far more than any other country on healthcare, but our "health" is no better? How do we fix the system before it collapses? Don't just tell me "the government can't/shouln't be involved". What does the answer involve? How do you see it happening?

Jordan

I highlighted the above because I always read this: "We spend all of this money, but our health is no better." Better than what?? What do you expect? Eternal life? We already live twice as long as our ancestors in the 19th century. What do you want to do - live three times as long? Have you spent much time with the elderly? Any 90 yrs +?
Hell, if I live to be so old that my balls are hanging down to my knees and I'm pi$$ing into a diaper, I'll be happy when death comes!

Originally Posted by honedright

I highlighted the above because I always read this: "We spend all of this money, but our health is no better." Better than what?? What do you expect? Eternal life? We already live twice as long as our ancestors in the 19th century. What do you want to do - live three times as long? Have you spent much time with the elderly? Any 90 yrs +?
Hell, if I live to be so old that my balls are hanging down to my knees and I'm pi$$ing into a diaper, I'll be happy when death comes!

You touch on my personal issue with the reform. I have historically declined health insurance from my employers and, now that I am freelance, do not purchase it for myself. I do this purely on moral grounds. If moral is the right term. While I respect the advances medical science has made in the last century and do not begrudge any the decision to take advantage of such I do not wish to have my life drastically altered by it. We are supposed to die and I accept that every day when I leave my house on my bicycle to ride with traffic that I might not be coming home, doubly so due to my personal beliefs. But now, I will be required to either pay extra taxes or carry a policy that I do not ever intend to use.

While I understand that my feelings at the age of 30 might change if/when I have children and that there are issues with medical response being taken in an emergency when I am unable to express my desires I still make the decision to accept those situations and deal with them if and when they arise.

But I think that the topic is drifting from the OP. In regards to that I think that we are in the beginnings of a long battle that could (not that I suspect it will) alter the way this Country works.

Originally Posted by honedright

I highlighted the above because I always read this: "We spend all of this money, but our health is no better." Better than what?? What do you expect? Eternal life? We already live twice as long as our ancestors in the 19th century. What do you want to do - live three times as long? Have you spent much time with the elderly? Any 90 yrs +?
Hell, if I live to be so old that my balls are hanging down to my knees and I'm pi$$ing into a diaper, I'll be happy when death comes!

There are well established measures that are used to describe a country's, or society's or city's or whatever population's general state of health. These can demonstrate a health care system's efficiency. I don't expect to live forever (in fact I think we need to be more realistic about end of life care), but I get angry when my insurance premiums go up and up and I wonder what I'm getting in return. People in other countries spend much less on health care and have the same or better health than we do as a whole. Our system is not efficient. Our system can't support itself much longer the way it is (it may get worse with this new bill). So again, how do we fix it?

And for those of you who think we haven't been paying for lazy people's care, no such luck. The hospitals charge your insurance companies more to cover the free care they give to the indigent. Then they take your tax money from the state - most offer money to hospitals for free care provided to the poor. Medicaid reimbursement is is below what it costs the hospital to provide service. Again, they make it up by taking tax dollars and passing the costs along to you via your insurance company...round and round it goes.

Jordan

Originally Posted by jnich67

"the government can't/shouln't be involved". What does the answer involve? How do you see it happening?

that sounds like another thread (and an interesting one), as this one's topic is a specific bill and states suing

also, and I guess I should have read the first post before replying in the thread , the OP specifically was talking about states' reaction to the bill

Honedright, I've always noticed that elderly men seem to walk slowly and very carefully...by your description above...I now understand why