Thread: Health Care Reform; States suing as unconstitutional

honed i agree with you on the damage control for sure!...........it just seems that the middle class is getting shafted yet again from people being lazy wanting all the handouts..this is off topic but the other day on the news they had al sharpton and some other guy discussing how the president hasnt done enough for "black america" i am in no way trying to turn this into any sort of racial slur or debate but last time i checked this is the United States of America.....where everyone has the equal opprotunity to work hard and have a succsesful life....the point i am trying to make is when is this train wreck going to stop. people need to quit wanting a government handout and get outside and go do work

Originally Posted by BAMARACING8

people need to quit wanting a government handout and get outside and go do work

as long as handouts are available, they will be taken. And people who promise more of them seem to have good success gathering votes. in a nutshell I think that's how it works because once you offer a handout, it's tough to take it away

I'm against gov. handouts for people unwilling to pull their weight. I've voted Republican all my life, but what about the fact that an increasing number of working Americans - not lazy bums - can no longer afford their health insurance premiums - or that their employers can no longer afford to offer health plans? What about the fact that we spend far more than any other country on healthcare, but our "health" is no better? How do we fix the system before it collapses? Don't just tell me "the government can't/shouln't be involved". What does the answer involve? How do you see it happening?

Jordan

Originally Posted by jnich67

I'm against gov. handouts for people unwilling to pull their weight. I've voted Republican all my life, but what about the fact that an increasing number of working Americans - not lazy bums - can no longer afford their health insurance premiums - or that their employers can no longer afford to offer health plans? What about the fact that we spend far more than any other country on healthcare, but our "health" is no better? How do we fix the system before it collapses? Don't just tell me "the government can't/shouln't be involved". What does the answer involve? How do you see it happening?

Jordan

I highlighted the above because I always read this: "We spend all of this money, but our health is no better." Better than what?? What do you expect? Eternal life? We already live twice as long as our ancestors in the 19th century. What do you want to do - live three times as long? Have you spent much time with the elderly? Any 90 yrs +?
Hell, if I live to be so old that my balls are hanging down to my knees and I'm pi$$ing into a diaper, I'll be happy when death comes!

Originally Posted by honedright

I highlighted the above because I always read this: "We spend all of this money, but our health is no better." Better than what?? What do you expect? Eternal life? We already live twice as long as our ancestors in the 19th century. What do you want to do - live three times as long? Have you spent much time with the elderly? Any 90 yrs +?
Hell, if I live to be so old that my balls are hanging down to my knees and I'm pi$$ing into a diaper, I'll be happy when death comes!

You touch on my personal issue with the reform. I have historically declined health insurance from my employers and, now that I am freelance, do not purchase it for myself. I do this purely on moral grounds. If moral is the right term. While I respect the advances medical science has made in the last century and do not begrudge any the decision to take advantage of such I do not wish to have my life drastically altered by it. We are supposed to die and I accept that every day when I leave my house on my bicycle to ride with traffic that I might not be coming home, doubly so due to my personal beliefs. But now, I will be required to either pay extra taxes or carry a policy that I do not ever intend to use.

While I understand that my feelings at the age of 30 might change if/when I have children and that there are issues with medical response being taken in an emergency when I am unable to express my desires I still make the decision to accept those situations and deal with them if and when they arise.

But I think that the topic is drifting from the OP. In regards to that I think that we are in the beginnings of a long battle that could (not that I suspect it will) alter the way this Country works.

Originally Posted by Muirtach

You touch on my personal issue with the reform. I have historically declined health insurance from my employers and, now that I am freelance, do not purchase it for myself. I do this purely on moral grounds. If moral is the right term. While I respect the advances medical science has made in the last century and do not begrudge any the decision to take advantage of such I do not wish to have my life drastically altered by it. We are supposed to die and I accept that every day when I leave my house on my bicycle to ride with traffic that I might not be coming home, doubly so due to my personal beliefs. But now, I will be required to either pay extra taxes or carry a policy that I do not ever intend to use.

While I understand that my feelings at the age of 30 might change if/when I have children and that there are issues with medical response being taken in an emergency when I am unable to express my desires I still make the decision to accept those situations and deal with them if and when they arise.

What would you do if you got bumped off your bicycle and broke your arms? Then what would you do if somebody saw your accident and called you an ambulance?

Well, he probably wouldn't be signing any forms for the Para-Medics

Originally Posted by commiecat

What would you do if you got bumped off your bicycle and broke your arms? Then what would you do if somebody saw your accident and called you an ambulance?

Call Doc Baker and see if he'll take my Williams custom in return for wrapping some splints around my arms!...

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Jordan

Originally Posted by commiecat

What would you do if you got bumped off your bicycle and broke your arms? Then what would you do if somebody saw your accident and called you an ambulance?

It would depend on the situation. Were I the one at fault I would apologize for the collision and be on my way to deal with it as I see fit on my own. This is not conjecture as I only have partial mobility of my right wrist due to doing just this 2.5 years ago and I stand by my decision. Were I not the person at fault I am honestly not certain how I would proceed. There are a number of factors to be taken into account besides the simple medical aspect. Mainly the security of mind for the other parties involved.

Originally Posted by commiecat

What would you do if you got bumped off your bicycle and broke your arms? Then what would you do if somebody saw your accident and called you an ambulance?

Since I could still walk, I would be a ****ed off SOB if you called me an ambulance, have you seen what they charge for a ride in those?

Personally I would pick my self up walk to the doctors office and ask him to set my arms, if he wanted to try and charge me too much, I would walk to a library, open a book, and learn how to set my arms myself.

If I had insurance I probably wouldnt care what the doctor charged, or if you called an ambulance for me, but then who would be the one wanting to keep prices down?
Doctors would love to see the prices go up and who could blame them, their education costs so much they start the private world in debt up to their eyeballs. Insurance companies would love to see prices go sky high, since that gets them more buisiness, its almost extortion.

As long as anyone but the consumer sets prices, prices will continue to sky rocket.

Sorry about the rant , back to the OP, I am confused about the republicans in Washington whining about state rights now. Why dont they stand on the side of states in the marijuana debate? How do they feel about the original usurper of state rights, the us government of the mid 1800's? Either the states have the right to decide for themselves or they dont, from my reading of US history they do/did. I for one think every governmental problem we have in the US today was started during the Lincoln/Johnson administrations(atleast Johnson tried to veto some bills) and have been made decidedly worse each time the government has tried to solve the problems that came to be because of the change that took place in our federal government at that time. Without the income tax that Lincoln started, would the government have the ability to just spend and spend and take and take? Our government up to that time got the their job done without involuntary taxation, and they were also held in check, size wise, until robbery and vindictiveness became american policy, I cant help but think the two are related.

For all those that love this new legislation. I will never pay for forced insurance, if that means I cant hold a job(on the books), oh well, I guess I will get on the governmental roles and all you that think that we live our lives for others can live for me, cause I am sick of living for you, i'm done. Yes this does sound selfish, because it is, I think we make the world better by making ourselves the best we can be, not that we make this world better by forcing others to do things on our behalf, its not charity no matter how you have justified it.

Where is krisbarger and his wondeful sig line quote by Sam Adams? It goes so well with this debate, imo.