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How about that SHOULD-HAVE-BEEN red card in the beginning minutes of today's game? That would have been huge... should have been. I was hoping Uruguay would go to the finals, but I'll be rooting for Spain- I just can't stand watching so many of the guys on the Oranje squad.
I am not much of a soccer fan, but I hope Netherlands wins the world cup.
Imo the Dutch fans deserve a victory. You really have no understanding of how completely crazy the Dutch fans become when it is soccer time.
Off the top of my head:
people painting their houses / bicycles / cars orange.
Orange mayonaise on the fries
Orange beer
Painting a tombstone of a deceased soccer fan orange (with permission from the widow)
Orange body paint
...
Congrats Spain for getting the best of the best and congrats Oranjees for making the game hard for Spaniards.
I was for Netherlands but Spain did show so beautiful football in this tournament and specially against Germany that they truly deserved their victory.
Luckily the game didn't go to PK's which i think is a wrong way to decide the winner, but i hoped that it had been Torres instead of Iniesta who should have deserved a red card for playing Hollywood actor while other were playing football. Too much sure goals missed and the referee got lost from a map at the last minutes of the game. Exciting game, although not the best i've seen.
Good tournament after all.
While waiting for 4 years for the next olympics, we can always order this thing and keep the feeling going on
Congrats to Spain! I was pulling for them as soon as the US was out and it's great to see a first-time winner.
I thought the game was enjoyable. I think the questionable calls all evened out -- the red card at the end was probably undeserved in actuality, but that atoned for de Jong's sonic kick to the chest earlier in the match in which he received a lenient yellow card.
Definitely good to see someone score before PKs. I think both keepers played exceptionally well as each side had some great chances to put the ball in the net.
I have to admit that despite my hope for Orange victory, Spain won deservedly. The Dutch played 'anti soccer' as it is called here.
Imo, it should be possible to punish players after the match if the official tapes show foul play or simulating fouls, like that spanish player that dropped down screaming and clutching his leg when he was touched. And when the ref didn't budge he just stood up and played on. Imo that should be grounds for disqualification of the next x games.
Well played and well deserved victory by Spain.
I agree with you, but then, what do we do about things like this?:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
http://estaticos03.marca.com/imagene..._portada_0.jpg
What a night, here in Spain we have been waiting for this for so long, myself I was not sure I'll see it during my lifetime....:)
The right team won. I was truly a neutral at the start, but within 10 minutes it was clear that the Dutch were intent on breaking the Spanish through fouls, and hard, crunching fouls at that.
I have no idea how a player like van Bommel continues to play at this level. I've seen less thuggery in a Sunday League game, which is saying something! He should have been sent off in this game, as well as the game before.
Much that I hate play acting, I gotta say that if the opposition decides to play such violent anti-football and does not get punished for the deliberately dangerous play (de Jong was not only dangerous with studs up, but was also nowhere near the ball when he kung-fu kicked the Spanish player), then one can almost forgive the Spanish for resorting to play-acting to elicit the right punitive behaviour which the Ref was studiously trying to avoid.
It was a good goal to decide the outcome though. And Casillas will be remembered for those great saves when one-on-one against Robben.
Overall, I thought this world cup was quite disappointing. It was also the lowest-scoring world cup in history!
Hopefully, by the next World Cup their team will have learned to play football without the need to disable their opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
They thought that they could use brute force to make up for lack of ball playing skill.
If they had won it would have given the wrong message to footballing youngsters everywhere.
No need for that now is there?Quote:
Originally Posted by welshwizard
On the other hand...it'd be nice if the Spanish players learned how to play without the need for PLAY ACTING. It happened a bunch of times that a spanish player fell down without someone even touching them and then start the theatrics and pointing to another player trying to get a free kick out of it.
Well, yes, but one could argue that they did this because the Dutch didn't get the yellow and red cards they deserved so much. The Dutch behaved like a bunch of thugs fighting for the ball.
Apparently the blame for Holland losing the game has now shifted onto the referee, nothing to do with the conduct of the players.
Congratulations to Spain, they are good figthers.
That's crap. Don't get me wrong. I don't like thuggery and I don't like play acting. Bot the two have nothing to do with each other. By that same argument you could say that the Dutch players were playing rough because the Spanish ones were play acting. The though that pops into my head is "If we're going to get yellow cards....we might as well deserve them."Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
So that's no reason at all. A good team doesn't need to resort to play acting, just like a good team doesn't need to resort to beatdowns.
As for this.....I see one player trying to kick the ball....and another running in trying to get a low header in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandrake
Stuff happens, in soccer too.
The vast majority of spectators see a flagrant high kick, with no thought for the consequences.Quote:
Originally Posted by LX_Emergency
If you support Spain or the Netherlands perhaps you may see things differently.
Strictly neutral (my team played badly and went home early) I think the Dutch were lucky to still have 10 men on the field at the end of the game.
You see that through orange goggles. :) Intent is irrelevant with a strike of that nature. De Jong admitted himself that he was lucky to get a yellow.Quote:
Originally Posted by LX_Emergency
The only reason he didn't get sent off was because it happened so early and it would have been at least 60 minutes of 11v10.
At least served as inspiration for the new "FIFA Fighter 2010" game:
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t...S/Fifa2010.jpg
:D
I would really like to know how many of you who are saying they were dirty or faking it play regularly.
Because until you play at a high level(no a weekend mens team doesn't count) you can't say what is fair or not.
Soccer is one of the roughest sports out there even tho it's non contact. So yes people are gonna get kicked in the chest the goalie is gonna punch someone instead of the ball when up for the header. It's all just part of the game. And like it or not the acting is too.
I have to disagree with you there. I've played for 31 years non stop, since I was 9. I've played in schoolboy teams up to amateur Sunday League. I still play a weekly friendly (but refereed) game. And last month I had the fortune to play at an ex-Premiership ground (The Madejski stadium).Quote:
Originally Posted by basil
At every level the refereeing was consistent: if you go into a tackle with studs up, or if you have not made enough effort to win the ball (as opposed to playing the man), it's a foul. It matters not whether a tackle deemed dangerous was intentionally so, or a genuine error on the part of the tackler. It's punishable.
I have been punched, elbowed, kicked, stamped on, had my nuts crushed a la Vinny Jones and Gazza, studs raked down my shins, and headbutted. Believe me, I and most of my peers who have also played over thirty years know exactly what is fair and what is not!
De Jong's tackle is about as easy a call as it gets. Studs up at chest level far from the ball. My 8-y-o son, my 66-y-o father, and my colleague in the office who is a qualified ref (certificated by the FA) unsurprisingly shared the same view. Instant red card.
Only Howard Webb seemed to think otherwise. (OK, and a few Oraanje's :) )
very true...sorry i didnt mean to say that the tackle to the chest was fair.
i just meant that stuff like that may happen sometime and like i said before accidents happen
Nope, intent is VERY relevant in soccer, hence the yellow card. If a player comes sliding in to kick a player for instance, instant card....if a player comes in sliding to kick the ball...no foul. A good ref. can usually tell the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
Accidents happen in every sport and football is no exception. I THINK (I don't know for sure offcourse) that the kickER was in this case about as surprised as the kickEE.
As for my orange goggles. Sorry man. I didn't even watch the whole game. The only reason the TV was on that channel was my wife (she like football, used to play it as a kid). I don't care one bit that the dutch team lost. I mean...I feel sorry for the players because they really felt they had a chance this year. But other than that...who cares. It's only a game and a game that I don't really like to watch.
"Orange goggles" is an easy copout, kind of easy like "The ref. was on the side of the other team"
So...try to get to know a bit more about someone before you accuse them of having a hidden agenda.
I didn't accuse you of having a hidden agenda. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by LX_Emergency
Dutch fans blame the loss on no-calls and defend De Jong's yellow card. Everyone else in the world seemed to see their flawed tactic of trying to get physical and agree that they should have played most of the match with 10 men.
I did not say that intent was irrelevant in soccer, only that it's irrelevant in a shot that vicious. Sorry, the only reason he wasn't sent off was because it was early in the final game. Every player knows the risk of kicking high, including De Jong.
Another correction....SOME dutch fans blame it on that. There are actually a LOT of dutch fans that simply say "Spain was the better team".Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
Ask the referee that did ya?Quote:
I did not say that intent was irrelevant in soccer, only that it's irrelevant in a shot that vicious. Sorry, the only reason he wasn't sent off was because it was early in the final game. Every player knows the risk of kicking high, including De Jong.
No different than your conversation with De Jong about what his intent was. We're both convinced of our thoughts and that's fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by LX_Emergency
Nope, not convinced of mine. Just not convinced of yours either.
Let's see that again, Alex.
YouTube - Nigel De Jong Vs Xabi Alonso Kung Fu Fighting
hm, yup ... assault.
Sorry man, still not convinced. Yes, it COULD be that...but just because it could be doesn't mean it IS.
Weird things happen in a sport. And I still think it's possible (at LEAST as much as the other option) that this was an accident.
A nasty accident? yes. Painfull? Yes
done to take the other player out? I don't know. I can't crawl into the mind of the men who it happened to. But I think most football player intend to play fair. Besides....I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think that the ref won't notice that. Which only adds to the likelyness that it was an accident.
Having looked at the clip above, you have to admit that his foot was nowhere near the ball. He wasn't even aiming for the ball. His leg just kept going forward towards the chest instead of upwards to the ball or (if he realized he couldn't make it)down to a safe level.
You cannot claim intent when he was clearly not even trying to hit the ball.
He was very lucky not to get a straight red. I thought at the time that it was because the ref didn't see it clearly. There were, in my eyes, certainly times in the first ten to twenty minutes when Howard Webb didn't card players for fear of having to reduce the sides to 9 against 11 before half time. I thought, and think, that the Netherlands were fortunate to have more than 9 players on the pitch at half time, fairly sure that they wouldn't have if it had been an English Premier league game.
For me, it wasn't so much horror at the tactics employed against Spain as it was disappointment that the Dutch side didn't think that they had enough to win the game and just went out to spoil and try and nick it. Had they have played to their strengths I think they may have taken it (of course they may have got a good hiding too). Anyway, see you in four years (I hope).
We have a saying in Dutch "De beste stuurlui staan aan wal"
The best steersman are on land.
Basically it means that everyone who's not involved thinks he can do it better than the proffessionals. In this case the referee and the players.
Here's how I see it.
If the ref didn't think it was worth a red card then he most likely didn't think it was done on purpose....
I was always taught that no matter what you think in a game, the re is always right.
You all have opinions on the matter....
you're all wrong because the referee thought different.
However if the referee DID think that it was done on purpose...and he didn't give the guy a red because he didn't want to start the game at a disadvantage to one team....then he might be right....but he's also a coward.
A different note to finish the World Cup on...
YouTube - Gandalf Goes to the World Cup</EMBED></OBJECT>