Thread: A question on Christian Scripture.

My 2cents,
Kevint, it seems to me that reading your posts, especially one, that you doubt or are undecided about your christianity.
The only thing you need to know of your salvation is to know how you feel about Jesus Christ. Is he who he says he is, the Son of God, God Incarnate, that he died for your sin and rose from the dead. If one believes this and repents he has eternal salvation.

Romans 10:9,10 "...If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

Also i get a sense of needing to do something or do good to be a christian. There is nothing we can do of ourselves to earn salvation.

Amplified Bible (AMP)
⁸For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (^a]'>[a]delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;
⁹Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law's demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]


We will not reach perfection until we are in his presence.

If i misunderstood any of the posts i apoligise and please ignore these comments if they a not relevant

Thank you for you input Paco. I trust these questions will not cause you to repent of your participation

Let's say, for the moment at least, that I am unconcerned with Heaven. Is there more to the meaning of Salvation- beyond the reward of heaven?

In Philippians 2 quoted in post 36 there is a very big question there which seems to point out that just as Jesus was in the form of God, that we too have, or at least can have, that same attribute. So it seems that the answer is Yes, he was god incarnate, and so are we. In fact he says we will( I think this means we can, or should be able to) do greater things(miracles) than he.

Do you mean by perfection that we would be sinless? If so, why would Jesus say sin no more if it cannot be done? Maybe it takes a number of steps / little by little. that's okay.

Originally Posted by kevint

Thank you for you input Paco. I trust these questions will not cause you to repent of your participation

Let's say, for the moment at least, that I am unconcerned with Heaven. Is there more to the meaning of Salvation- beyond the reward of heaven?

In Philippians 2 quoted in post 36 there is a very big question there which seems to point out that just as Jesus was in the form of God, that we too have, or at least can have, that same attribute. So it seems that the answer is Yes, he was god incarnate, and so are we. In fact he says we will( I think this means we can, or should be able to) do greater things(miracles) than he.

Do you mean by perfection that we would be sinless? If so, why would Jesus say sin no more if it cannot be done? Maybe it takes a number of steps / little by little. that's okay.

This post reminds me of something I heard my dad say a long time ago that stuck with me. "At first, a lot people become a Christian because they fear going to Hell. Then, as they learn, they serve God because they want to go to Heaven. As they grow, they want to go to Heaven because they love God and want to be with Him"... I think that sums it up pretty well. Beyond Heaven, there is the fellowship (joint participation) with God and the other saints.

Perfection doesn't have the connotation that we won't sin. Perfect, in this sense means "complete". Jesus was God incarnate in human form, but we are made in the likeness of God. There's a difference, but as we become members of his "body" we become adopted sons who "cry Abba, Father" (Rom. 8:7-15)

It doesn't quite sound that way Paul. All people have a higher level of consciousness than do ants, we are above the level of pure instinct. Is this what is "in the likeness of God" but then we can move up and be likeminded with Christ- those verses seem to point to a higher level beyond normal human existence.

Predestined doesn't mean it WILL happen. Merely that that is what it's purpose was.

It's supposed to do something. Doesn't mean it will. For instance no-one is MEANT to be a killer/murderer/rapist. Yet some contravene their predestination and do so anyway.

Christ was predestined to be the saviour and He became such because He chose to do what the father asked him to.


Just because something has a purpose doesn't mean it'll fullfill that purpose.

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

Predestined doesn't mean it WILL happen. Merely that that is what it's purpose was.

It's supposed to do something. Doesn't mean it will. For instance no-one is MEANT to be a killer/murderer/rapist. Yet some contravene their predestination and do so anyway.

Christ was predestined to be the saviour and He became such because He chose to do what the father asked him to.


Just because something has a purpose doesn't mean it'll fullfill that purpose.

Thanks LX I will accept your answer as the meaning of predestined.

Originally Posted by kevint

It doesn't quite sound that way Paul. All people have a higher level of consciousness than do ants, we are above the level of pure instinct. Is this what is "in the likeness of God" but then we can move up and be likeminded with Christ- those verses seem to point to a higher level beyond normal human existence.

Paul said, "be ye imitators of me as I also am of Christ". Being likeminded with Christ doesn't mean we are or become "gods" or have a higher human existence. We still have normal human experiences throughout our lives. We don't rise above that until we receive our reward. Paul said, "... but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected." Remember too, that even the Apostle Peter had reason to be rebuked (Galatians 2). So we don't become "perfect" as in without sin and incapable of it. But we are perfect in that we have been reconciled to God and are his "children".

Originally Posted by kevint

Thank you for you input Paco. I trust these questions will not cause you to repent of your participation

Let's say, for the moment at least, that I am unconcerned with Heaven. Is there more to the meaning of Salvation- beyond the reward of heaven?
Yes, a relationship with Him, ability to make wiser decisions with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

In Philippians 2 quoted in post 36 there is a very big question there which seems to point out that just as Jesus was in the form of God, that we too have, or at least can have, that same attribute. So it seems that the answer is Yes, he was god incarnate, and so are we.
I have to disagree with the last portion of the statement, we can be like him in word and deed but, never be GOD as He Is.

In fact he says we will( I think this means we can, or should be able to) do greater things(miracles) than he.

Do you mean by perfection that we would be sinless?
If so, why would Jesus say sin no more if it cannot be done? Maybe it takes a number of steps / little by little. that's okay.

I would take this to mean intentional sin, don't walk or live in sin.

Paco, thanks for the post. I'm assuming that you were referencing me when you made the comment about earning salvation. Saying that being obedient is "earning" anything is specious on its face. I tell my daughter if she does the dishes with me, I'll give her $10 a month. She's 6 and is in the way. She's not earning anything, but I made her a promise and when she does her part, I do mine.

God has done the same thing for us. He sent his son who was made a propitiation for our sins. He then said, believe on him, and be obedient, and we'll be given a home in Heaven. He didn't say, "I'm going to pick and choose who I want to be 'saved', but I'm going to give the whole world a document that tells them that every one has the choice of being saved or not." It is our choice. God isn't making us, and he's not impeding us. It is our choice.

Us believing and being obedient doesn't qualify as "saved through works". That's a ridiculous argument. However, doing what you are told to do and getting the promised reward is still Grace. Jesus said "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he that doesn't believe shall be damned" (Mark 16:16). That ties in to what was said in John 1 "To all who received him, to those who believe on his name, he gave the right to become children of God". You see, believe is only part of the game. You have the right to become a child of God when you believe. But before you are obedient, you aren't. Cornelius (Acts 10), Phillipian Jailor (Acts 16), Paul (Acts 9), Ethiopian Eunuch (Acts 8), etc.... I could keep going.... are good examples of this principle

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Paco, thanks for the post. I'm assuming that you were referencing me when you made the comment about earning salvation. Saying that being obedient is "earning" anything is specious on its face. I tell my daughter if she does the dishes with me, I'll give her $10 a month. She's 6 and is in the way. She's not earning anything, but I made her a promise and when she does her part, I do mine.

God has done the same thing for us. He sent his son who was made a propitiation for our sins. He then said, believe on him, and be obedient, and we'll be given a home in Heaven. He didn't say, "I'm going to pick and choose who I want to be 'saved', but I'm going to give the whole world a document that tells them that every one has the choice of being saved or not." It is our choice. God isn't making us, and he's not impeding us. It is our choice.

Us believing and being obedient doesn't qualify as "saved through works". That's a ridiculous argument. However, doing what you are told to do and getting the promised reward is still Grace. Jesus said "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he that doesn't believe shall be damned" (Mark 16:16). That ties in to what was said in John 1 "To all who received him, to those who believe on his name, he gave the right to become children of God". You see, believe is only part of the game. You have the right to become a child of God when you believe. But before you are obedient, you aren't. Cornelius (Acts 10), Phillipian Jailor (Acts 16), Paul (Acts 9), Ethiopian Eunuch (Acts 8), etc.... I could keep going.... are good examples of this principle

No Sir, It was not in reference to your post, just the general statement that you cannot earn salvation. In other words, Good Works are not a condition for salvation, but a result of salvation, as you have said obedience and love toward our fellow man. Also just because someone is doing good works does not mean they are saved. Only God knows the heart.