Thread: NY man shot 21 times by police ...... expected to live

Witnesses differ on whether the dead man, shot 6 times, and the one who survived were armed, but one way or another the fellow who allegedly shot at the police was hit 21 times with 9mm rounds and is recovering. No charges filed as of yet pending investigation. Here is the write up.

It's time for the police to give up on "pray-N-spray" and just call in some close air support.

A month back, my wife looked up from the morning paper and asked why an off duty Baltimore police officer would shoot an unarmed man thirteen times?

I said the cop was off duty and probably didn't have an extra magazine to make it 26.

Takes huge amount of shooting skills to shoot a man 21 times without killing him. More than Dirty Harry ever had. Or then go back to shooting range and practice some more
As for the other guy 'the target' there is no use to put his money on lottery any more. He has used all the luck he ever had end ever will get.

Originally Posted by Sailor

Takes huge amount of shooting skills to shoot a man 21 times without killing him. More than Dirty Harry ever had. Or then go back to shooting range and practice some more
As for the other guy 'the target' there is no use to put his money on lottery any more. He has used all the luck he ever had end ever will get.

Dirty harry was using a 44 mag with hollow points.......

I don't know if police use hollow points in NY. I know that does not make sense, but neither does NY in many ways. A solid 9 mm round is not very effective.

Of course who can trust the news, maybe it was 21 shots fired?

A lot of rubbish. You can hit someone with a well placed 22 round and kill them instantly and 21 times with poorly placed rounds and not no matter the caliber.

Originally Posted by Kingfish

Dirty harry was using a 44 mag with hollow points.......

I don't know if police use hollow points in NY. I know that does not make sense, but neither does NY in many ways. A solid 9 mm round is not very effective.

Of course who can trust the news, maybe it was 21 shots fired?

The 9mm is better than the .38 cal. soft lead bullet and revolver they used to carry.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

A lot of rubbish. You can hit someone with a well placed 22 round and kill them instantly and 21 times with poorly placed rounds and not no matter the caliber.

This is true for sure. If you read the article it turns out that the dead man was killed by one of the police 9mm hollow points. They know this because it was the only one of the 5 rounds that didn't go completely through the man and had polygonal rifling. It is notable that the wounded man has not yet been charged. In the heat of action and the split second decision making the LEOs may have made a mistake. For their sake I hope not. They take one heck of a burden upon themselves when they put on that badge.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Witnesses differ on whether the dead man, shot 6 times, and the one who survived were armed, but one way or another the fellow who allegedly shot at the police was hit 21 times with 9mm rounds and is recovering. No charges filed as of yet pending investigation. Here is the write up.

Wow. there is a lot going on here.....

Bystander, undercover cop all shot.

Officer Tedeschi, 36, who has been on the force three and a half years, fired 16 times. He was one of three plainclothes anticrime officers who fired in the direction of Mr. Alvarez.
Two officers were also wounded, the police said, one when a bullet fired by a fellow officer struck his bullet-resistant vest....
Three other people, believed to be bystanders, also received minor gunshot wounds. Although it was not immediately clear who fired those shots, all but 4 of the 50 shots fired in the melee came from the police, officials said.

As an American I am embarassed by the accuracy of our police force. Police in European countries often do not carry guns and while that probably says more about the culture of Europe versus the USA. European officers that do carry guns are often issued with .22 I believe, meanwhile in the USA our officers need 9mm (10mm in the case of the FBI) because their accuracy is so lousy that they need a hit to do maximum damage. I know it's unfair to compare the accuracy of a French officer using a .22 to that of an nypd officer using a 9mm obviously the larger round is harder to control but I feel that a accuracy of approx. 50% is very much to low especially when it places bystanders and fellow officers at risk. I find the issue of accuracy much more of a problem than the overwhelming force used, as long as the suspect is discovered to have somehow threatened those nearby requiring deadly force

The FBI switched to .40 S&W because of difficulty in controlling the heavier recoil of the 10mm. The 9mm is a relatively easy round to gain proficiency with. The thing is that you have split seconds to make a decision and carry it out. When they saw one of their own men go down they reacted. Whether it was over reacting remains to be seen. Giving a policeman a .22 to carry is irresponsible IMO. They have a hard enough time staying alive with the .40 which has routinely become the round of choice for departments in Florida.