Thread: Protesting in Wisconsin....Just the beginning?

If you compare Ireland couple of decades ago with Ireland of today, it actually has worked really well. Yes, it is currently a bit low due to the recession, but just before then it was one of the most booming economies in europe (also why the bubble there was a bit bigger and thus a bigger pop).
Let's take the latest technological product, the IPad2 - check how much of the value is captured by the manufacturing and tell me again you want to do that job instead of the design, or even retail. And the manufacturing cost isn't that low because it was made in China instead of in USA, it's because it's made mostly by machines with very little human involvement. It's the better technology that killed the bulk of the manufacturing industry, not the exports.

Pretty much same thing as if you want to have a custom made razor you have to pay 4-6 times more than if you want to have a factory production. The difference between chinese and german production is probably another factor of 4 at the same quality level (currently larger because of the difference in quality)

Note that the Japanese economy has been stagnant for decades, what China buys from US is technology, and steals as much as they can from what they're not allowed to buy.

Yes protectionism works if the result of protectionism is what you want. How about the US corn production?
As far as the early 19th century it's always better to make the most relevant comparisons. How about current developed economies, e.g. Germany and France.
Or how perhaps discussing the early 20th century razor imports - we've all had the pleasure of the products first hand and we also have some related congressional hearings.

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

China exports everything they can to America, what do they buy from us? Nothing

Not quite true.. in January GM reported higher sales in China than here in the US.

I agree with gugi in the fact that maybe if they would look at increase the wages of teachers based on performance instead of tenure things may be different from an educational stand point. I have met many wonderful teachers that care about their students and are there for the right reasons. There has also been the polar opposites that they are basically teachers for the benefits and to get tenured so they are "guaranteed" a job without having to work too hard.

If job creation is a key component to a recovery then more money should be going toward public education so schools can hire more teachers and get class sizes down where there is more one on one with students. If our children are the future driving force for the US then why are we not investing in them instead of cutting funding massively ( almost 50% in MI if the budget in it's current form passes ) and giving large tax credits for creating new jobs that for the most part are going to required some form of college education. It may bring people back to MI but it will not help those that are currently here.

The reason why this doesn't get done is because there are politicians involved. You always hear how important education and public safety are to communities but then come budget time they're not staffing them properly and actually laying them off, but somehow or other they can find money for their little pet projects.

Come re-election time they spew the same things they know people want to hear. Apparently people forget very quickly.

John

The solution to education is private schools.
Remove the school tax from property taxes and let each school manage their own system and each parent select the school that is more adequate for their children.

Making education a for profit venture is not a good idea. I agree there are underperforming public schools, but there are also underperforming private ones and in many cases the teachers aren't even certified that work there.

Rather than blame the teachers for not doing their jobs why don't we look at the social issues that contribute to some children not doing well.

John

Originally Posted by Navaja

The solution to education is private schools.
Remove the school tax from property taxes and let each school manage their own system and each parent select the school that is more adequate for their children.

Not all states link property taxes to school funding any more.. Michigan was that way until the mid 90's and then they tied it to the lottery and that is when funding started it's downward trend here.

Private schooling is not really the answer either as then you would have those that charge exorbitant tuition and "buy" the best teachers etc and the families that could not afford it would have to go to a school that has substandard teachers because that is all they can afford... oh wait that is the current situation anyway.

Of course this is a political one.. but the thing I find interesting is that it is the only issue that most political parties are in agreement ( as in we need to do better education wise ) yet funding keeps getting cut and other legislation is either not pushed through due to the Teacher Union being against it ( pay based on performance has been tried multiple times here in MI but keeps getting shot down ) or modified to death as a compromise.

Schools would be far better off if they all had free popcorn and circus clowns.
The clowns should not be part of the union. The employees that make the popcorn should be part of the union. That will solve most of the problems.




(I just figured as long as we can toss around unsubstantiated "facts", arguments without reasoning, and non-sequitors in this thread...)

Like mother always said, "the higher it flies, the much." Mother always was a great one to cut right to the quick.

Now, where were we?

Originally Posted by HNSB

Schools would be far better off if they all had free popcorn and circus clowns.


I just figured as long as we can toss around unsubstantiated "facts", arguments without reasoning, and non-sequitors in this thread

No clowns please.. they scare me.. Popcorn would definitely make everything better though.


If that was directed at my last comment I should say that it is my opinion after working with both public and private schools (in multiple states) for the past 10+ years and seeing a drastic difference based on quite a few factors.

Originally Posted by Troggie

If that was directed at my last comment I should say that it is my opinion after working with both public and private schools (in multiple states) for the past 10+ years and seeing a drastic difference based on quite a few factors.

It was mostly directed at the earlier comments about how our economy (and standard of living) is in the toilet because of outsourcing, and manufacturing in China.

International trade is not the problem with our economy:
Until 2009, Canada was a bigger trade partner with the US than China, yet people rarely complain about outsourcing to Canada...

Nearly 90% of our goods and services are produced here. Of the remaining 10%, we do have a trade deficit, but after you account for exports (=American jobs) the trade deficit is only roughly 3% of GDP (to be fair, trade with China does account for about 1/3 of that deficit).

One other fun statistic that may surprise you: we actually have a HUGE trade SURPLUS with Hong Kong.

International Trade Administration for all the foreign trade statistics you want.

From an economic standpoint it actually makes sense (=is better for the American worker) to do some of the manufacturing elsewhere. The union rhetoric that it is killing America is wrong.

As to the education stuff, I don't have a strong opinion one way or another about the unions. I think they are only a small part of the problem when it comes to education spending. I do know that there are school districts in my state that spend over $10,000 / year / student, and their test scores are no better than school districts that spend a third of that. The answer always seems to be throwing more money at the problem; clearly that isn't working here. $10,000 a year per student is too much to spend for the results that we're getting, IMO.