Thread: The loss of basic skills in school

Patrick

Thanks for that commentary, I completely agree. In Northern Ireland we seemed to have a more traditional schooling than the rest of the uk, the usual subjects plus latin and greek, and i truly believe that an education of this type produces a more educationally rounded person. We studied not only english as a subject but had an english literature class also, where i was exposed to Robert Frost, a poet who, to someone who is not paricularly interested in poetry, i found extremely interesting. The french take it one step further and have a separate grammer class. It a sad thing to say i learned more about my own language through the study of French and to a lesser degree, through Latin (mainly to my own misfortune now, i was less interested).

When teenagers these days are answering essay questions in english using "txt spk" it really worries me..

What do i do now? my degree is in mechanical engineering and i work for and oil company. i have to prepare reports on a daily basis. And just because i ended up doing this not make my now defunct shool subjects any less valuable intellectually. The idea of teaching for exams is a worrying one as all this does is teach a child how to go through a process to answer a specific question, not solve an unfamiliar problem based on applying principals they have learned, or think for themselves. In effect we are not teaching kids how to learn.

Thank you tekbow for your kind words and your input.

I believe teaching people how to read poetry is good for public speaking. Reading poetry aloud or to one's self requires rhythm, varying the voice's pitch and volume, and emotion. How many times have you suffered listening to a monotone speaker? It is a killer, is it not? I read a lot of poetry in middle school and high school. When I think about it, I fully understand reading poetry's purpose, to help with public speaking. Sometimes I am required to deliver briefings at work and I read scripture at church, feel learning poetry has helped me with my delivery. Mind you, I have taken public speaking classes and seminars, but learning to read poetry provided me a foundation. In one public speaking class I took, the professor said that a person can read every one of Emily Dickinson's poems to the tune of "The Yellow Rose of Texas?"

You made an excellent point about "The idea of teaching for exams is a worrying one as all this does is teach a child how to go through a process to answer a specific question, not solve an unfamiliar problem based on applying principals they have learned, or think for themselves." is quite valid and I agree with you. You have also brought this thought to mind: I have worked with people who tout many certifications and I have attempted to tap their expertise to help get a problem solved; unfortunately, they unable to help me contrary to the supposed knowledge they are to possess based on the certification. I concluded that they are nothing but "successful test takers".

The news reports talk about how well Maryland's children are doing on national tests and how well the schools are preparing these children. Aligning myself with your point, what are they preparing these children for? Learning or taking tests??? One of my answers is this: Who is benefitting from passing these tests, the children or the state's schools?

Originally Posted by Bruno

If you have an e-reader and a couple hundred of e-books, and your e-reader gets stolen, is it possible for you to get new copies of the e-books without having to pay all over again?

Yes, with the Barnes and Noble Nook. When you purchase an e-book, you essentially own that copy. With Amazon's Kindle, you can re-download the e-books up to three times, afterwards you must pay for it.

Originally Posted by gugi

Sounds like he'll have to be disincentivized in some way to not continue such thing. Don't they have to write something when they apply, as well?

Gugi, to answer your question: "Don't they have to write something when they apply, as well?", yes, to apply, a person must submit a resume'. I never saw the young man's resume', I am sure either he had help in writing it, or since he might may have not had an extensive work history it might have been a very short resume' and therefore, not too difficult to write.

He shouldn't be able to get it based on inadequate qualifications, or if he does he shouldn't be able to keep it for too long. If that doesn't happen the problem is with the DoD not with him.

I think the fundamental skills people need to learn for our society are first critical reasoning, second ability to express themselves. One can of course get by without the second, but they'll be limited to positions where they don't have to interact with anybody else.

I feel where DoD is "missing the mark" in hiring is that too much emphasis is placed on the technical skills and they ignore the fundamental skills. The DoD has hired a generation of "youngsters" that are well versed in their respective majors/fields, but not only lack the fundamental skills, but also have poor social and interpersonal skills. After talking to one of these "youngsters", I have often commented to my peers that I felt I was talking to a corpse.
Before I forget, I am 52 years old and I have been employed with the DoD for 27 years.

I remember being young and working with old morons. Then I was older and worked with young morons.

As to the schools, there will be smart kids and there will be dumb kids. The tools used to teach them don't matter. It's more an issue of capacity and willingness for learning.

Originally Posted by HNSB

As to the schools, there will be smart kids and there will be dumb kids. The tools used to teach them don't matter. It's more an issue of capacity and willingness for learning.

True, very true. I also feel that effective parenting is essential. DVDs, iPods, computers, TVs, and video games are poor substitutes for parents and affect a child's development and passion for learning.

Don't you guys have some power to reject his report, or give him a lower grade based on it?
Apparently somebody else is making the hiring decisions at DoD and they should have some concept on what kind of workforce they're creating. One possibility is to hire people with very good technical skills and virtually non existing social/interpersonal skills and then have them being managed by people who can make it work. I personally don't think it's a particularly good model, but only putting it to practice can determine that.

I have some observations from the top tier academia and the emphasis there is on research since that brings in money. A good researcher most certainly has decent communication skills, as they have to convince others about their work, but they are more often than not not the best teachers out there. It works well though, because almost everybody can teach the basics adequately, and then when it comes to the state of the art stuff, it's more of a training by example and by definition they're the best at it.

Originally Posted by gugi

Don't you guys have some power to reject his report, or give him a lower grade based on it?
Apparently somebody else is making the hiring decisions at DoD and they should have some concept on what kind of workforce they're creating. One possibility is to hire people with very good technical skills and virtually non existing social/interpersonal skills and then have them being managed by people who can make it work. I personally don't think it's a particularly good model, but only putting it in practice can determine that.

I have some observations from the top tier academia and the emphasis there is on research since that brings in money. A good researcher most certainly has decent communication skills, as they have to convince others about their work, but they are more often than not not the best teachers out there. It works well though, because almost everybody can teach the basics adequately, and then when it comes to the state of the art stuff, it's more of a training by example and by definition they're the best at it.

Not me, I was only consulted by his supervisor whom we have mutual respect for each other. Our departments collaborate with each other. I had nothing to do with the young man's hiring. I know my colleague had the young man rewrite that essay based on my comments and input. By the way, I have a notorious reputation for being a ruthless proof reader, just ask my son!! I told my colleague that if the young man comes back next summer to work with us, perhaps it would be a good exercise to task him to write weekly reports as a way to help the intern's writing skills. Good writing is not hard to do, the secret to good writing is simplicity. Do I make mistakes with my writing? Yes, I try very hard to catch them and some of them get by me. I just found some mistakes in my opening commentary. I do take the time to proof, but some mistakes still get by me.

Sounds pretty reasonable to me. In US education there's a lot of freedom what kind of courses students take, so it's relatively easy for them to design a rather poor education for themselves. At the end of the day the market sorts it out most of the time

If you Americans are afraid that you may be being left behind by the super smart Asian kids, you have nothing to worry about. Here in Thailand we are working hard to make sure that no student graduates from high school with the ability to concentrate for more than five seconds. We have achieved this by putting an iPhone or Black Berry in the hand of each student. Many students have an iPhone in the left hand and a Black Berry in the right hand. The government also has plans to stop children learning by giving each student a tablet computer that can do nothing but play Angry Birds.

On top of that, just in case any student gets the idea in to his or her head to learn something, we have a no fail policy. Even the stupidest student with the mental incompetence to be considered mentally disabled gets a passing mark.

The testing however, is not standardized. I write my own tests based on what I have taught. The Thai teachers teach write their own tests, which are just copied from locally produced text books, mistakes and all.

As for the quality of the teachers, it is well known that it is almost impossible to be fired from a public school in Thailand. Physical beatings causing lasting harm are not enough to do it. Nor is it enough that the teacher in question wasn't actually qualified to be a teacher.

So don't worry, your nuff nuffs are still going to be smarter than our average students.