Thread: An observation on the unemplyoment rate.

Maybe I'm dating myself here but back when I went to school the idea of college was to become educated and be a better rounded and more knowledgeable person and the general knowledge gleaned would be used throughout your life. Too bad these days it's looked on as a commodity only where unless I earn so much more it's not worth it. Maybe that's why so many "college graduates" these days aren't all that literate.

The fact is people expect too much from our educational system. The purpose is to "educate" you so you can function in society in the most general sense. With the exception of things requiring advanced studies most skill type jobs you learn on the job. That is how it has always been done. Employers these days expect too much. They want someone tailor made to their specification to come walking in the door ready to go. it doesn't work that way. Like everything else in our society these employers want it the easy way.

A large part of the problem is that a lot of colleges tout placement rates and hire percentages of graduates. All colleges, even the state schools, exist solely to make money. If they were truthful and said that college isn't for everyone and that q lot of what you learn are free thinking and problem solving skills that are wonderfully useful but don't do much for you in getting a job then they would make far less money.

I wish I had gone to a trade school instead of college, where I majored in the useful and lucrative...psychology. I had to go to school again to learn something useful. But I do know that electricians and plumbers and such make a good living, and had I gone that route at 18 I'd be a lot, lot better off than I am now.

Other professions with skill gap? I've heard lawyers.

As long as people blame the government for their own choices and failures there's not much that's going to change. I am not aware of anybody being forced to go to college. I hear free market solves all, and college education has been outpacing inflation for a long time, so it's either something really worth the money, or people are voluntarily making terrible choices.

I've met my share of college graduates who have no business looking for a job which involves thinking. And I've met plenty of people who're making their living with plumbing, carpentry etc. who are so incompetent that should be long dead if it weren't for the welfare programs.

I don't know if there is a solution that will all of a sudden make the world work like magic. The capitalistic system, along with globalization seems pretty reasonable to me. The only downside that I can see is that the elite minority eventually ends up with enough resources to turn the system from meritocracy to plutocracy.


BTW I don't see any problem with paying my plumber more than my shrink.


Also few months ago I saw in Bloomberg's business week magazine an article on the exact same subject - training people for skilled machine work, I believe it was in Michigan. The first thing was that most companies that benefit from this are not that much into paying for it and they're trying to get as much money as possible from government grants (I don't remember the exact numbers but it was really big fraction). Secondly, the graduation rates are not very high.

Finally apparently there is a big demand for unskilled labour. I read that after Alabama took very hard stance against illegal immigration a lot of their produce just rotted in the fields earlier this year.

Originally Posted by gugi

...I hear free market solves all, and college education has been outpacing inflation for a long time, so it's either something really worth the money, or people are voluntarily making terrible choices.

Good post. Education costs have been outpacing inflation by a long shot...precisely because the free market does not exist in the education market. Wherever government (especially the federal government) meddles, costs skyrocket and results go into the toilet. True of education, true of healthcare. I can't wait until the government takes over the market for shaving.

Yes the lack of a skilled workforce is a huge problem.

I've been machining since 85, never went to school for it and have no degree in anything. I can run the life out of an engine lathe though. Ever turn a #2-56 on a (conventional) lathe? Most every thing I do these days is CNC though.

Here's the thing. Ray is spot on, most of the kids coming out of the community college can program using Mastercam and various other programs but sorely lack in the real world knowledge it takes to make a machine sing. A lot of companies want 1 or 2 "machinists" on staff and desire to fill the majority with "operators". Load part push button, boring. There is a reason custom machined pieces can cost a small fortune, they are a bitch to make, and to do it right takes skill. To do it quickly and correctly, lots of skill. In my opinion machinists are the most underpaid trade. The rational behind this is the amount of knowledge required to do things quickly and correctly. If you are very good you understand advanced math, mechanical assembly, mechanics, some chemistry, metallurgy and basic physics. The just average, probably not so much.

We here in Washington are soon going to run into a problem. No skilled machinists to be found. If you are good you are working. This is going to be a crunch for us because Boeing just signed its biggest contract in history. Who will make the flight critical components? Well me for one, but me and those like me can not make them all. We still have medical devices and every thing else to build. There are not enough hours in the day. Not just WA though its every where.

Another problem, nobody wants to get their precious little hands dirty. Woosies. Well I don't like to get dirty either, but I like to eat and have a roof over my head. So dirty it is, don't shirk the work. The only time I have been unemployed for longer than 6 weeks was by choice, my choice. Even then it was rare and welcomed.

Because of how I was raised and am "frugal" (my Mrs. pronounces that word cheap), I can do much of what I need my self. Build an engine (never from scratch though), roof a house, build a shed, tear out a wall and replace it no big deal. Need help, call dad, (grandpa, friend, neighbor) that's how I learned. Now my daughter and son in law do the same and I am happy to help and so is his father. Not because we have to but because we value the American Spirit and our way of life.

I could go on for hours on this subject, but its bedtime

Proud to be Middle Class
Jeff

Oh yeah THERE IS NO GAP IN UNSKILLED LABOR. The gap is unemployed fools to LAZY AND UNWILLING TO GET OFF THEIR DUFFS to get out of bed and go pick apples. Our governor sent prisoners to go finish the job. The pickers made around $150 a day.

No real problem. All they have to do is file a petition and they can bring in all the machinists they want from Asia at cut-rate prices.

Brilliant points TURNMASTER. I think there are too many young people who think they are "owed" something. That or they foolishly listened to the college counseler who told them that lesbian studies of the 1960s masters degree was gonna get them far. No one wants to get dirty. GOT THAT RIGHT!!! Young folks want to do IT, electronics, video game development, bake cupcakes, make choppers or whatever else is the flavor of the week on the boob tube. There is plenty of work to be done- Retail, food, fast food, warehouse, shut downs, Military Service etc. I can assure you that all the occupy (flea party) folks could work and pay off the loans and their debts if they wanted to. They just don't. I have done all manner of work. Not bragging, but just saying. I have not liked it all, but it paid the bills. My lights stayed on, my kids were fed and I thanked God for it all.

Originally Posted by TURNMASTER

Yes the lack of a skilled workforce is a huge problem.

Originally Posted by TURNMASTER

Oh yeah THERE IS NO GAP IN UNSKILLED LABOR. *The gap is unemployed fools to LAZY AND UNWILLING TO GET OFF THEIR DUFFS to get out of bed and go pick apples. *Our governor sent prisoners to go finish the job. *The pickers made around $150 a day.

Unless you want to be consistent, and use the same standard when defining a 'gap'.

Originally Posted by TURNMASTER

A lot of companies want 1 or 2 "machinists" on staff and desire to fill the majority with "operators". Load part push button, boring.

And when they change that business model there will be more skilled machinists. This is something that depends primarily on the people with skills to run a business, not on the ones with skill to machine.

Originally Posted by TURNMASTER

In my opinion machinists are the most underpaid trade.

Or just lacking the skill to negotiate a better pay for themselves. For example, bankers generally don't seem to have this problem.