Thread: British Law?

Originally Posted by HamburgO

Wow! 21 ft. lbs. is considered excessive? What's the reasoning behind that? I don't believe that would make it a lethal weapon to anything much larger than a rabbit. A "real" .22 LR 38grain bullet at 1260 ft/s produces 134 ft.lbs., and would at best be considered marginally effective as an anti-personnel round.

Yes, anything over 12ft lbs for a rifle and 6ft lbs for a pistol, in fact most rifles are tuned to around the 11ft lbs mark to be on the safe side. I was arrested once returning from night shooting rabbit, the police saw a gun slip on the rear parcel shelf of my car, pulled me over and requested that I show them what was inside, I had a bolt action PCP (pre charged pneumatic) rifle with a large 4-16x44 scope plus a hefty silencer fitted, one of the officers went ape because he was convinced it was a cartridge rifle, it eventually got sorted when the desk sergeant at the station recognised it for what it was. They still sent it off to be tested though, this is the procedure they use.

Air weapons seized by the Police are checked for safety, (unloaded) and submitted for testing by a Home office approved and trained firearms officer. The first stage is an examination of the gun, recorded is its calibre, any serial number the make or manufacturer and the overall condition.

The tester has to in the first instance be able to successfully load and fire the weapon . He will for instance attempt to clear a blocked barrel, but his interventions are limited.

He is in possession of a variety of magazines and fill probes to cover PCP,s he also has at his disposal Co2 capsules and a wide range of pellets.

He also has available a calibrated Skan Mark 9 chronograph hard wired to a PC. He also uses a calibrated weighing scale. Both of these devices receive regular calibration tests.

The test shots are fired at a distance of one metre from the Skan chronograph.

The pellets he uses are normally of a good quality brand, although the brand is not identified in his report.

He then proceeds to weigh five of each different brand of pellet, pre selected for their known propensity to be either light weight, medium weight or heavy weight.

The ambient temperature of the test site is recorded

The gun is loaded and each of the string of five shots is fired through the chronograph, ( this part of the test is not recorded) although the velocity appears on the screen of the PC. He then identifies which string of shots gives the most consistently high power.

( It should be mentioned here that light weight pellets are more prone to being over the limit in a spring gun, whilst a PCP generally produces higher readings with heavy weight pellets).The tester is obviously familiar with the power out put of various types of air weapons with regard to their construction & operational capacities.

Once he has established the highest output, he will then select ten pellets from that particular brand that gave high readings & proceed to record the velocity of each shot. Obviously what he is looking for are the shots that exceed the set limit, 12ft lbs for a rifle, 6ft lbs for a pistol.

He has discretion, but not much, if three or more shots in the fired string of ten shots exceeds the limit, his report will indicate a S1 firearm. Under 3 shots over the limit, he will mention this in his report, but not indicate that it falls into the firearms category.

Strict or what!

Originally Posted by osdset

Strict or what!

No kidding, quite a procedure! As most things bureaucratic, makes little sense to me, especially since a decent slingshot can produce in excess of 20 ft./lbs. of energy. Are those also illegal in GB?

We can buy and use slingshot's (catapult's to us), bows, and crossbows without licence. It's always seemed strange to me that I can buy a compound archery bow that is potentially lethal, and is totally unregulated as far as power is concerned and the law does not bat an eyelid, but woe betide me if my rifle is over the legal limit. The law's an Ass.

Need a licence here in Australia for air rifles and cross bows as well. Sling shots are illegal in all but three Australian states (afaik) and silencers of any kind for air rifles or otherwise will send you straight to jail.


Mick

Originally Posted by MickR

Need a licence here in Australia for air rifles and cross bows as well. Sling shots are illegal in all but three Australian states (afaik) and silencers of any kind for air rifles or otherwise will send you straight to jail.


Mick

I don't understand this silencer thing, I can understand to a degree governments applying draconian laws with regard to cartridge weapons, but air rifles? Maybe it's because they begin to look too much like 'real' rifles or more likely that some air rifle silencers can be used with .22 cartridge rifles.
IMHO silencers are a bit of a 'must have' in a fashion accessory kind of way for some owners, most spring air rifles rifles will be mechanically noisy anyway, so a silencer is of limited use. PCP rifles just need the high pressure air blast from the muzzle suppressed, Co2 rifles sound like cannons, way too loud, they really need a silencer for hunting at any rate. No one needs one for target shooting outside.
I make my own silencers, I like trying out different designs, I enjoy the engineering aspect of it all, and getting a silencer to sound like a mouse fart is highly satisfactory!

Non lethal air weapons, well I just found this.

The ShinSung Dragon Slayer

The first Korean big bore gun I used in the field was the Dragonslayer, a .50 caliber production air rifle manufactured by Shin Sung. This rifle has evolved from the company’s Dragon model, based on input and direction from their US distributors. The Dragonslayer is a fairly large gun weighing in at 8.8 lbs, 40.3 inches in over all length with a 20.6 inch barrel. The barrels on the Korean guns warrant mention, they are very well made and inherently accurate, as a matter of fact they are OEM’d to some of the premium airgun manufacturers in Europe. This rifle has a single air reservoir (unlike the Dragons twin tube reservoir) that fills to 3000 psi and yields up to 10 full power shots per charge. A handy feature is the built-in pressure gauge which allows one to monitor the drop in air pressure as you shoot. I like this feature a lot, as sometimes during a day of hunting it is easy to loose count of how many shots have been taken, and an on-board gauge give you advance notice to refill. The trigger is a two stage adjustable and has a good tactile response, though the trigger blade is a bit too short for my taste. This does not adversely affect the shootability of the gun and the pull is light and crisp. The side-lever cocking mechanism, which also opens the loading port is ergonomic and is fast and easy to bring into action under field conditions. The Dragonslayer is not as powerful as some of the custom guns, however I’ve taken feral hogs inside of 50 yards, and smaller antelope in Africa at 70 yards. I have also used it to take jackrabbits at long distances (out to 100 yards), and coyote, raccoons and other hard to kill quarry at 60 – 70 yards. The Dragonslayer is on the light side for large feral hogs, but for service as an all around 60-70 yard predator rifle, I would recommend it without reservation.

On this site Big Bore Airguns- The Korean Connection - AirgunDepot.com

I can just imagine what the Home Office would make of that one

Originally Posted by osdset

I don't understand this silencer thing, I can understand to a degree governments applying draconian laws with regard to cartridge weapons, but air rifles? Maybe it's because they begin to look too much like 'real' rifles or more likely that some air rifle silencers can be used with .22 cartridge rifles.
IMHO silencers are a bit of a 'must have' in a fashion accessory kind of way for some owners, most spring air rifles rifles will be mechanically noisy anyway, so a silencer is of limited use. PCP rifles just need the high pressure air blast from the muzzle suppressed, Co2 rifles sound like cannons, way too loud, they really need a silencer for hunting at any rate. No one needs one for target shooting outside.
I make my own silencers, I like trying out different designs, I enjoy the engineering aspect of it all, and getting a silencer to sound like a mouse fart is highly satisfactory!

I own a suppressor for my 9mm - even here in the US, we have to go through a Federal permit process with the ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms) and pay a $200 tax. Silencers/suppressors, as well as short-barreled (<16" barrel, <26" overall) rifles/shotguns, and automatic weapons fall under the National Firearms Act. This was instituted in the 1930's after the prohibition era gangland massacres, during which the bad guys were all using these nasty weapons and accessories. The idea was that a $200 tax (equivalent to $2,800 today) would help to keep some of these arms off the street. The funny thing is that the tax amount has not changed since the '30s! Not a big deal to do, just takes a long time, from 4-8 mths.

I like using it to target shoot outdoors, but also keep it on my nightstand pistol. If I ever have to fire it in the house, at least it'll be quiet ;-), and also does a good job of suppressing muzzle flash.

Originally Posted by osdset

Non lethal air weapons, well I just found this.

The ShinSung Dragon Slayer

The first Korean big bore gun I used in the field was the Dragonslayer, a .50 caliber production air rifle manufactured by Shin Sung. This rifle has evolved from the company’s Dragon model, based on input and direction from their US distributors. The Dragonslayer is a fairly large gun weighing in at 8.8 lbs, 40.3 inches in over all length with a 20.6 inch barrel. The barrels on the Korean guns warrant mention, they are very well made and inherently accurate, as a matter of fact they are OEM’d to some of the premium airgun manufacturers in Europe. This rifle has a single air reservoir (unlike the Dragons twin tube reservoir) that fills to 3000 psi and yields up to 10 full power shots per charge. A handy feature is the built-in pressure gauge which allows one to monitor the drop in air pressure as you shoot. I like this feature a lot, as sometimes during a day of hunting it is easy to loose count of how many shots have been taken, and an on-board gauge give you advance notice to refill. The trigger is a two stage adjustable and has a good tactile response, though the trigger blade is a bit too short for my taste. This does not adversely affect the shootability of the gun and the pull is light and crisp. The side-lever cocking mechanism, which also opens the loading port is ergonomic and is fast and easy to bring into action under field conditions. The Dragonslayer is not as powerful as some of the custom guns, however I’ve taken feral hogs inside of 50 yards, and smaller antelope in Africa at 70 yards. I have also used it to take jackrabbits at long distances (out to 100 yards), and coyote, raccoons and other hard to kill quarry at 60 – 70 yards. The Dragonslayer is on the light side for large feral hogs, but for service as an all around 60-70 yard predator rifle, I would recommend it without reservation.

On this site Big Bore Airguns- The Korean Connection - AirgunDepot.com

I can just imagine what the Home Office would make of that one

Thanks! I had no idea they made air rifles as powerful as this. I'll be working in Germany later this year, and it looks as though they're perfectly legal there. The rifles require a not hard to get permit, and the pistols are freely available to anyone over 18. These pistols are firing 4.5 mm pellets at 580 fps - quite impressive, and I would hate to get hit in the face by one: DIANA Mayer & Grammelspacher GmbH & Co.KG -LP8 MAGNUM SILVER

Air guns of that power (roughly) and calibres were made even around 200 years ago if I remember correctly.


Mick

Originally Posted by MickR

Air guns of that power (roughly) and calibres were made even around 200 years ago if I remember correctly.


Mick

The Lewis and Clark expedition carried an air rifle that was powerful enough to kill deer.
It had an air reservoir in the buttstock and a detachable barrel. The barrel was removed, and there was a pump that would insert into the buttstock. The other end of the pump was threaded to screw into a tree. The rifleman would rock back and forth against the tree to charge the rifle.