Thread: Someone explain this to me.

Originally Posted by eflatminor

That's a fair point until you realize that the only way corporations get so big is via CRONY capitalism, which always requires a big government politician on the other side of that equation. Rather than criticizing companies that have taken advantage of favorable tax rates, loopholes or bailouts, I choose direct my ire towards the government bureaucrats that meddle in markets not permitted by the Constitution. As much as I dislike companies that were bailed out or that get political favors, they are not breaking the law and they are acting in the best interest of their stakeholders. Big gov meddling exceeds the confines of the Constitution and as one look at the debt will show, they do not act in the best interest of the taxpayers.

Be angry at both big business and big government, but please don't think that "your guy" in government will be immune to the campaign contributions and favors that business is happy to offer in exchange for political protection/favorable regulation/bailouts, etc. Nobody has magic beans in their pocket. Only those politicians that stand against ANY meddling in markets can possibly reduce the influence of big corporations. After all, if one is not willing to even entertain the idea of picking winners or loser in a market, they can't be bought by big business.

Yes and also remember all those tax codes were written by the rich folks and corporations through their lobbyists so as to create such favoritism. The type of political system we have begs the problems. It (meaning the problems) have been around since the earliest times even in the days of small govt and the corruption was probably worse back in the 1800s.

Don't meddle with the markets and you return to the extreme boom and bust cycles tied to capitalism that has plagued this country since it's inception. No, big Govt doesn't prevent this however it mutes it and helps pick up the pieces.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Don't meddle with the markets and you return to the extreme boom and bust cycles tied to capitalism that has plagued this country since it's inception. No, big Govt doesn't prevent this however it mutes it and helps pick up the pieces.

I couldn't disagree more.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

It's funny how folks keep harping on how Govt has grown so much but I never hear about how corporations have grown so big. In fact they are the ones who sit in the background and really control things including Govt and it's because of them Govt has gotten so big in many areas.

Actually I have said it. The problem is most people think that they are two entities, no they are not, one has bought and paid for the other. The problem on the Democrat side of the aisle is that they think the Govt.(owned by banks, oil, insurance, etc) should have regulatory control over the banks, oil, insurance companies. The problem on the Republican side of the aisle is that they think Capitalism equates with free markets, individual liberty and Jesus Christ. Neither view is correct. The truth is that the corporations control the govt of the US, notice who got the stimulus? How many people are still looking for that "shovel ready job"? What we have is socialism for the sake of the Capitalists/Industrialists.

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

Actually I have said it. The problem is most people think that they are two entities, no they are not, one has bought and paid for the other. The problem on the Democrat side of the aisle is that they think the Govt.(owned by banks, oil, insurance, etc) should have regulatory control over the banks, oil, insurance companies. The problem on the Republican side of the aisle is that they think Capitalism equates with free markets, individual liberty and Jesus Christ. Neither view is correct. The truth is that the corporations control the govt of the US, notice who got the stimulus? How many people are still looking for that "shovel ready job"? What we have is socialism for the sake of the Capitalists/Industrialists.

(as an outsider) of course they are the same. That's going to happen when big corporations fund the 'race'.
Capitalism equates to Jesus? Seriously? I would have thought Socialism would have been closer. I think we're starting to see the fall of Capitalism. In fact, I think we're about a 1/4 of the way into the fall...I'll give a year, tops...

Who do you think is pushing and funding the fall?

The bit about JC is to give a you a sense of the self righteousness of some of those on the right.

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

Actually I have said it. The problem is most people think that they are two entities, no they are not, one has bought and paid for the other. The problem on the Democrat side of the aisle is that they think the Govt.(owned by banks, oil, insurance, etc) should have regulatory control over the banks, oil, insurance companies. The problem on the Republican side of the aisle is that they think Capitalism equates with free markets, individual liberty and Jesus Christ. Neither view is correct. The truth is that the corporations control the govt of the US, notice who got the stimulus? How many people are still looking for that "shovel ready job"? What we have is socialism for the sake of the Capitalists/Industrialists.

I can't say I disagree. Politicians and lobbyists (representing people with lots of money) do have quite a cozy and long lasting relationship. Politicians, needless to say are on the gravy train with biscuit wheels as long as they cater to special interest groups who in turn donate gobs of money above the table and God only knows how much under the table to keep politicians friendly to their interests in office. The politicians are rewarded with a career where they are paid lavish quantities of money for very little work and the special interest groups are provided with legislation that keeps their racket alive and well too. The result is pretty predictable, the interests of regular working people, who can't buy people in government to represent their interests, are alone somewhere in the middle paying for both corporate and personal welfare and struggling to get by. It is indeed a difficult problem but the idea that government can or would in any way regulate what amounts to a sweetheart deal for them, out of existence is patently ridiculous. It's like leaving a couple dozen doughnuts in the custody of a room full of fat women. "Stimulus", "shovel ready jobs" and indeed "eat the rich" and "class warfare" are all just marketing campaigns and saber rattling to ensure the appearance of having the people's best interests in mind. If I really had the answer to the problem I'd be in alot better shape than I am right now but I suspect that the key is to take the politicians out of industry and the industries out of politics. A true free market economy would be one where no business was "too big to fail". Those that excelled and made gobs of money would do so because of exemplary business practices and taking care of their people as opposed to what politicians they had in their pockets or what government money they could belly up to the trough for. In my little universe, government would take a laisez fair approach to business and visa versa. Lobbying and unions would be illegal and all politicians would be limited to two terms in office.

I've always found it a perverse irony that purely socialist countries never seem to have much of a middle class. There's filthy rich and appaulingly poor, nothing in between. The poor are, for all intent and purpose, the serfs, those that do the grunt work for the "benevolent" masters in return for whatever scraps they are thrown. No one is truly free or in charge of building their own lives and upward mobility is a pipe dream. The socialist system, whose big selling point is equality (in theory) is anything but in practice. No doubt our current system is very broken but moving toward socialism or trusting in a "benevolent" master to keep us all equal is definitely NOT the answer.

PS: For the record, I'm as right wing as they come but definitely not an evangelical. I simply believe that people should be left alone to build the best lives their talents and ambitions would allow. Government's role, in as much as they have one, is to ensure equal opportunity and NOT equal results. Far too often in the modern world, bad behavior on the part of government, industry or just individuals is rewarded and or celebrated and I just can't get on board with that.

Much of this just goes back to human nature and the kind of animals we are.

Even in the simplest primitive societies there are those better off than others, there are those who want to run the show. Most people are like sheep and just want to follow the pack and want to be told what to do. That pretty much drives our society these days too. It will never change and either will our societies.

Our Governments just follow suit but on a grander scale.

Because our society is so complex the needs and wants of some will contradict those of others so there will always be turmoil and there will always be those in charge who want you to cow down to their way of thinking. The only issue is how much power and ability they have to realize their goals. Maybe through democratic systems, maybe a dictatorship of some kind or maybe just liquidate you.

Maybe in a couple million years or so we will have evolved enough (if we survive) to a point where we and our societies and makeup will change.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I never hear about how corporations have grown so big

I hear it all the time

edit: kelly beat me to it