Thread: Trayvon Martin (pardon me if this subject is verboten.)

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Glen, thats exactally why my guns (other than sporting arms) do not go outside my home.
The odds of you getting killed by say an outside robbery attempt are slim and none,even the baddest of the bad do not shoot people over a watch or a wallet if the victim is passive and quickly complies.
Packing heat (legally) changes a persons mindset,all of a sudden they become omnipotant,I do not care how intelligent you are or how well you have been trained,guns can be like alcohol,can turn a 90 lb wimp into hulk hogan.
You state that your CCW is like a life insurance policy,well,you confront another armed person, worst case scenario,one of you may die on the spot,and it may be you. so much for the policy.
CCW advocates, have made claims that if a CCW person was on campus at Columbine Or V tech,the carnage could have been averted,99% of that is bullshit,the first thing any person under fire will do is look for a place to hide and wish they had a change of pants.
Ya know, if zimmerman had no gun.legal carry or not,the kid would most likly still be alive,just a good ole street fight,end of story.
As a lifetime NRA member, and a firm believer in the 2nd,The day, if it ever comes when everyone is packing heat scares the shit out of me,maybe need to get into a major training regimin so I can run 1600 FPS and get away from the bad guys)

You're statement above, I pretty much agree with; so this reply is not meant to be adversarial. My reply is only from a different set of eyes.
When it comes to my life, my loved ones lives or the life of an innocent person, suddenly coming under attack; I do not play the odds. I try to leave home every day with the winning hand. This includes my training with and without firearms. The odds always look good in crime stats; unless you are one of the stats.

In your own words, “the baddest of the bad do not shoot people over a watch or a wallet if the victim is passive and quickly complies”, this is correct for the most part; because the “baddest of the Bad” are working in crews/groups that hit high risk, profitable targets and pull home invasions on other bad guys. The ones that are shooting us over our wallets, are the desperate/mentally ill ones and Pixel, there are a lot of them around. Most of the armed robberies do not make the news, even some of the ones with death the result. I know this first hand, because I have been on these crime scenes many times. Probably every time I stood there and waited for the body to get removed, I wondered what the deceased could have done differently and lived. We all are told/taught by police, parents and Monday Morning Quarterbacks to hand over the requested items and your odds of living through the incident are in your favor. I really do not believe this increases your chance of surviving. I truly believe based on my life’s experience, that a person has made up his mind to kill you, before he requests your valuables in many cases. One fact is for sure, any person who brings a weapon to rob you, has already considered that he may have to use that weapon on you; and in the fact that he still brought the weapon; this indicates that your life is worthless to him, regardless of how much you pay him.
Yes, some people seek out the CCW to make up for feelings of inadequacy in dealing with physical confrontations. A false sense of security at least; a deadly mistake waiting to happen, at most. It’s possible that Zimmerman fell into this category. Only two really know & one is dead.

My CCW is a life insurance policy, of sorts; a policy for me and innocents. A policy that has a very long, detailed “Stupidity Clause”. You really have to read that clause.

CCW Advocates say many things and I agree with your comments on Columbine & V Tech. It’s just that the Anti-Gun Crowd hits us hard with their BS also. We have to try and take a foot of ground where ever we can find it.

If Zimmerman had not had a gun, the kid ( 17 year old young man. When I was 17, I was already signed by the Marines, better shape than most twice my age.) would be alive, but Zimmerman would probably be dead or damaged goods at best. I believe he does have a family to feed. There is no such thing as a “good ole street fight” anymore. In our time, you & I would have fought unarmed and the winner/better fighter would have known when to stop. The winner would have bragging rights in school and our fathers would have put us all in a room to work out our differences verbally, so the fight did not repeat itself. Now its dog eat dog with death or serious injury waiting on the sidelines. This is not our generation in the streets these days.

Just my thoughts.....

Originally Posted by Hirlau

CCW Advocates say many things and I agree with your comments on Columbine & V Tech. It’s just that the Anti-Gun Crowd hits us hard with their BS also. We have to try and take a foot of ground where ever we can find it. .

If you notice, a lot of these mass killings are taking place in "gun free" zones. The killers are going where they have the least chance of being confronted by an armed defender.

Very True.

( QUOTEC=CW Advocates say many things and I agree with your comments on Columbine & V Tech. It’s just that the Anti-Gun Crowd hits us hard with their BS also. We have to try and take a foot of ground where ever we can find it.)


Huh? Name me one anti gun group that has even 10% of the political muscle that the NRA has. They pretty much own Congress and get passed any bill they want. The anti gun people mostly make a lot of noise which leads nowhere. I wouldn't be worried about losing any gun issues.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

If you notice, a lot of these mass killings are taking place in "gun free" zones. The killers are going where they have the least chance of being confronted by an armed defender.

Forget about the talking points and the rhetoric about guns. Criminals take the easy route. if no one has guns they use knives to commit crimes. If that ain't enough they carry guns and if there is a chance they will encounter an armed person then they get bigger guns AND they assume the armed person will act so that armed robbery with the threat of self defense on the part of the victim turns into a situation where the bad guy will shoot first in self defense himself. You see these things can go either way. Sometimes the bad guy worries about what might happen to him too and ramps up his violence.

You know, when that congresswoman in Arizona was shot there was a guy coming out of the mall armed and what did he do to stop the violence? Nothing. He didn't have a clue who the bad guy was which is a very common situation in such cases so you take cover and watch until you can figure out what is going on. Ask any cop who has been involved in responding to a gunfight in progress about that and he'll tell you.

As far as claims that places where folks are armed have lower crimes rates there has never been any statistical correlation indicating that to be the case. In general violent crimes in this country have been decreasing for years. it doesn't seem like it but that's because of the news cycle we have these days where everything gets blown out of proportion.

I'm just saying having a gun isn't what it seems to be to many people, the universal answer to something bad happening and can in and of itself cause problems.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

( QUOTEC=CW Advocates say many things and I agree with your comments on Columbine & V Tech. It’s just that the Anti-Gun Crowd hits us hard with their BS also. We have to try and take a foot of ground where ever we can find it.)

I'm just saying having a gun isn't what it seems to be to many people, the universal answer to something bad happening and can in and of itself cause problems.

I agree. I don't go around with John Wayne syndrome. I'm still paranoid and try to be aware of what is going on around me. I hope to God that I never have to pull it. If I hear a gunshot inside a store I'm not going to run up to find out what is happening. I think I would have to see the robber pull his gun out and point it at the clerk to actually pull mine.

There are specific instances where having one is life itself. The incident in Texas that caused our CCW law to be passed is a perfect example.

Belton Texas, a man rammed his truck through the wall of a Luby's Cafeteria. He then started randomly shooting people. Reloaded and continued to shoot people. Workers ran outside pleading with anyone that might have a gun. No one did. Lives could have been saved.

One of the safest places to be in the world is at a gun show. Everyone is polite.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

...

As far as claims that places where folks are armed have lower crimes rates there has never been any statistical correlation indicating that to be the case.

Actually, some statistics have been kept about more guns = lower crime rates. Gun Ownership Mandatory in Kennesaw, Georgia .

It's general knowledge that rapes, car-jacking, and many other crimes went way down after Indiana became a "shall issue" state for License to Carry Handgun. In particular, right after passage there was a spate of car-jacking deaths (dead perpetrators) by legal concealed and open carriers. It was reported in all the newspapers, and then car-jackings seemed to fall way off. I'll see if I can find the IN statistics on the reduction when I feel like Googling. I read about them years ago, but can't remember the website offhand. The Indiana gunowners website has threads on successful (and some unsuccessful) armed defense quite often.

I'm just saying having a gun isn't what it seems to be to many people, the universal answer to something bad happening and can in and of itself cause problems.

Agree; a carrier should learn the state and local laws on use of deadly force, especially on "when" and "how". A gun can cause more problems than it solves for the uninformed or untrained. Everyone's state "gunowners" website, if it exists, might have "stickys" about local defense statutes and the like.

[QUOTE=thebigspendur;969374]( QUOTEC=CW Advocates say many things and I agree with your comments on Columbine & V Tech. It’s just that the Anti-Gun Crowd hits us hard with their BS also. We have to try and take a foot of ground where ever we can find it.)


QUOTE "Huh? Name me one anti gun group that has even 10% of the political muscle that the NRA has. They pretty much own Congress and get passed any bill they want. The anti gun people mostly make a lot of noise which leads nowhere. I wouldn't be worried about losing any gun issues."



You misunderstood my comment, but it's really not important anyway.

I guess he never heard of the Clinton "Crime Bill". Gun owners certainly lost there.

Obama does a lot under the radar. He has ordered that all military brass be shredded instead of being sold to reloaders.

That brass is being sold to China and will probably be used against us someday.

Must be why I cannot find brass for my BMG

I have to wonder what would be going on IF Zimmerman was catching a beating and in fear for his life,and pulled a knife and cut the kids throat and killed him.
would there be as much ruckus? Especially if it was just a pocket knife. As for carrying a gun outside, when I did it for a living (rent collector) I found that I was a much calmer person and walked away from altercations that could have easily gotten out of hand, having the ultimate winner on my hip made me walk away as no matter if I was involved in a clean shoot or not,as Glen mentioned,there was going to be consequences,whether I was right or wrong,and when in my twenties,and unarmed,I was just as likely to start swinging as not because I was young and not going to be charged with weapon possession.just my 2 cents/