Thread: Wow! Are You Kidding Me!?

I am an educator and I am not going to rant.

I will merely suggest that education in the United States is not nearly as bad as everyone thinks. Many of the systems that are described as having the best education do not include all. School, above a middle school education, is something to be earned in many countries. One is required to pass certain boards and examinations both written and oral in order to even get into the High School level.

So perhaps I will rant a little.

Many are given the chance to move into a trade or apprentice program. The U.S. has moved away from this paradigm and has greatly suffered. We say every student needs to be in a college track and expect them to do exactly that when some would be just as happy as a car mechanic. Honestly, my mechanic makes about three times my salary and had no formal college education (was he educated? yes.). There is need for every type of job, but we cannot live by the addage that everyone is inherently equal in mental capacity, and/or that everyone is needed or intended to be the same. I am much happier knowing that there is a diverse population that would gladly learn different trades and that the money isn't the only decision maker on what type of job you perform.

Do I think that there are better education systems? Yes. Does that mean that the entire population of that country is smarter? No. Fortunately for this country we still have some great educators and the most extensive post primary education in the world. We still have innovation that other countries envy and do their best to steal. We put more stock in advancement and technology, and are decades ahead of many countries. And thankfully many great minds from abroad want to live here. I do see a regression, but it is not the norm.

Last bit I'd like to share. I would bet that less than 20% of all U.S. adults could even list half of the States and State Capitals (without looking them up).

[QUOTE=Yochatman;958032}

Do I think that there are better education systems? Yes. Does that mean that the entire population of that country is smarter? No. Fortunately for this country we still have some great educators and the most extensive post primary education in the world. We still have innovation that other countries envy and do their best to steal. We put more stock in advancement and technology, and are decades ahead of many countries. And thankfully many great minds from abroad want to live here. I do see a regression, but it is not the norm.

Last bit I'd like to share. I would bet that less than 20% of all U.S. adults could even list half of the States and State Capitals (without looking them up).[/QUOTE]

I think a major problem with our post primary education system is it is flat too expensive and it shouldn't be will all the government support it gets.
Also, colleges are too willing to give out degrees in areas that are totally useless unless you are going to teach. What good is a Fine Arts degree outside of college?

Originally Posted by Crotalus

Also, colleges are too willing to give out degrees in areas that are totally useless unless you are going to teach. What good is a Fine Arts degree outside of college?

Honestly, there are many great areas where a FA degree can be used to good advantage. But what specialization? A dramaturg will write things that you may want to see on television or on the stage. A music therapist may get a severly autistic child to speak. A person with a Master's in Fine Arts may run the gambit from a Professor to a Producer to a Movie star. Many degrees may seem useless to one who receives but does not apply that degree. Plato asserted that "To sing well and to dance well is to be well educated!" One of the greatest minds of all time! Don't discount anything.

Originally Posted by Yochatman

Honestly, there are many great areas where a FA degree can be used to good advantage. But what specialization? A dramaturg will write things that you may want to see on television or on the stage. A music therapist may get a severly autistic child to speak. A person with a Master's in Fine Arts may run the gambit from a Professor to a Producer to a Movie star. Many degrees may seem useless to one who receives but does not apply that degree. Plato asserted that "To sing well and to dance well is to be well educated!" One of the greatest minds of all time! Don't discount anything.

The Fine Arts also produce the backbone of any capitalist, free market economy; advertising.

Yochatman,

Just to be clear, I was not berating the education system in either your country or mine, but rather the fact that there are too many people that simply have an insufficient education..period.

Skilled trades area hugely important part of any economy and they pay well. There is no shame whatsoever in being a mechanic, plumber or electrician. They are all honorable trades.

I happen to be the least educated person in my immediate family. My wife has two university degrees, my son is a college graduate and my daughter will be doing her Master's degree (followed by a PhD) in genetics this fall.

Having said all that, I'm well enough versed in math, geography and english to have been able to support my family and send two kids through college and university. What I'm trying to get across is that there are many types of education and knowledge, but the basics such as numeracy and literacy are sorely lacking today.

Clarification...basic numeracy and literacy means more than being able to count and read and write simple text. it means being able to take those skills and use them to understand more complex things.

Originally Posted by joebehar

What I'm trying to get across is that there are many types of education and knowledge, but the basics such as numeracy and literacy are sorely lacking today.

Clarification...basic numeracy and literacy means more than being able to count and read and write simple text. it means being able to take those skills and use them to understand more complex things.

I agree, to some extent. Sadly those were things that were required by the 8th grade when education was more than High Stakes Testing! Now we teach to a test, and that is the worst possible thing we could do.

If two pounds of beef cost $5.50, and three punds of beef cost $8.00, which of the following would you do?

A) I am a vegetarian, I wouldn't buy either
B) I would buy 2 pounds $5.50/2=2.75 which is more than $8.00/3=$2.67
C) 3 pounds of beef is more than I would use.
D) I would buy both because my parents are rich

That is how they would see the purchase of beef at a grocery store.

I forgot
E) How much is the Chicken?

Originally Posted by Yochatman

I agree, to some extent. Sadly those were things that were required by the 8th grade when education was more than High Stakes Testing! Now we teach to a test, and that is the worst possible thing we could do.

If two pounds of beef cost $5.50, and three punds of beef cost $8.00, which of the following would you do?

A) I am a vegetarian, I wouldn't buy either
B) I would buy 2 pounds $5.50/2=2.25 which is less than $8.00/3=$2.67
C) 3 pounds of beef is more than I would use.
D) I would buy both because my parents are rich

That is how they would see the purchase of beef at a grocery store.

I forgot
E) How much is the Chicken?

nice example... i believe that my duty to other's children education ends when they can read and hopefully understand the no trespassing signs on the property lines and do basic math like giving me correct change for a purchase. beyond that it is the parents job to see to their education and associated costs. however i will allow that teaching trades and life skills is OK but simply warehousing young people until they reach a certain age is not educating them... many people know early on whether they want a college education or to work in a trade. if that was identified earlier and then the kids were educated to those ends we would be better off on the whole. trying to teach things to people who do not want to learn is frustrating, i know that from training people to do work ... those who are just there because they need a job hold back the people who actually want the job.
look at the craftsmen around here if they did not enjoy the task of restoring or making razors do you really think they would produce such nice razor porn?

Originally Posted by syslight

nice example... i believe that my duty to other's children education ends when they can read and hopefully understand the no trespassing signs on the property lines and do basic math like giving me correct change for a purchase.

Oh, come on Jim, why would you be wasting your money? Guns and ammo are way way cheaper and much more effective

Originally Posted by gugi

Oh, come on Jim, why would you be wasting your money? Guns and ammo are way way cheaper and much more effective

yes but that is my reply to people calling to solicit funds for starving children... i always offer them guns and ammo... and explain how they are much more humane

jim