Thread: Where Do We Draw The Line?

Originally Posted by Crotalus

Socialized medicine where a faceless bureaucrat decides what care and how much can be spent on you should scare the hell out of you. It's the ultimate in tyranny.

Versus a faceless corporation that decides if they can make their money on you or just find some loophole to deny you? That sounds way better...

Originally Posted by ryanjewell

Versus a faceless corporation that decides if they can make their money on you or just find some loophole to deny you? That sounds way better...

No, I disagree. I recently won a fight against the insurance company. They wanted to limit my drugs. I got my doctor to phone an insurance company employed advocate. The insurance company fought itself and I won.

Obamacare bureaucrats are already talking about limiting care. They also cut 500 million from Medicare to help pay for Obamacare. They claim they will make it up by being more efficient. Right! They are already arguing that it doesn't make sense to spend money on old people that won't contribute enough to society to make it work caring for them. Can you say, "death panels"?

Originally Posted by ryanjewell

Versus a faceless corporation that decides if they can make their money on you or just find some loophole to deny you? That sounds way better...

This would also not be a problem if the market was free. Corporations always act in their own best interest. If you had freedom to choose your insurance company, the ones that got a rep for bad service would lose clients and money. Right now you are stuck with the company your employer picks. I agree that some things need to be changed, like pre-existing conditions. That being said what about the person that refuses to buy any insurance at all until they are deadly ill. There has to be an answer, but giving the whole thing to the government is not it. There are too many people coming to this country to get treatment that's being refused to them by their governments at home.

I see a common thread here. People either trust the government or they don't. I for one do not. The government stopped serving our interests a long time ago. It's main interest now is growth and power. Taking over health care is a huge power grab. If you need a heart transplant, are you going to criticize the government? They will have the power of life and death. The California water issue proves it. They shut down a key farm aqueduct in Ca because the pumps were killing a 2" fish. They put tens of thousands of people out of work and crippled the food industry in Ca over a fish. When environmentalists whackos can make the government pick fish living in a man made body of water over people it is no longer serving us.

Just my opinion, but if you trust the government more than you trust Corporate America you have truly drunk the koolaid.

Business got America where it is now, not government. The free market built America, not government regulations.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

Just my opinion, but if you trust the government more than you trust Corporate America you have truly drunk the koolaid.

Business got America where it is now, not government. The free market built America, not government regulations.

Interesting...although you're mostly right, the question that comes up is how do we keep companies that are less than ethical from ripping people off?

Its precisely the lack of regulation that got your fine country into that mortgage debacle that started this downward spiral,

I'm all for free markets, but free does not mean you can cheat and steal. if a private company willfully cheats and lies, they need to be held accountable. If you or I misrepresented ourselves at a bank and managed to get a million dollar loan and then refused to pay it back I think the full weight of the law would be upon us. Not one single person or company has been charged, let alone convicted in the sub prime mortgage fiasco.

I believe government should protect its citizens...all of them, not just the ones that donate millions to re election campaigns.

The hysterical response to "socialized medicine" south of the border leaves me puzzled. I live in a country that has a form of socialized medicine, one of many variations out there, and do not want to see privatized medicine gain anymore of a foothold here than it already has. I trust large corporate entities even less than than I do governments. There are certain key things that I do not think privatization would improve. To me privatization in health care with the over riding motive of profit is a "death squad" waiting to happen. That is just the view from other side of the fence.

I recall having a conversation with a Minnesotan about taxes we both paid and it turned out that we were both tax free about the same time of year. The difference was that he had to pay a huge amount monthly for family private medical coverage which I did not. My medical coverage was included in the taxes I had paid. I think I will keep what I have and know.

No system is perfect but I would rather have a system where everyone is entitled to the same level of medical coverage rich or poor. There are many ways to get there but a two tiered system is not one of them for me.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

The hysterical response to "socialized medicine" south of the border leaves me puzzled. I live in a country that has a form of socialized medicine, one of many variations out there, and do not want to see privatized medicine gain anymore of a foothold here than it already has. I trust large corporate entities even less than than I do governments. There are certain key things that I do not think privatization would improve. To me privatization in health care with the over riding motive of profit is a "death squad" waiting to happen. That is just the view from other side of the fence.

I recall having a conversation with a Minnesotan about taxes we both paid and it turned out that we were both tax free about the same time of year. The difference was that he had to pay a huge amount monthly for family private medical coverage which I did not. My medical coverage was included in the taxes I had paid. I think I will keep what I have and know.

No system is perfect but I would rather have a system where everyone is entitled to the same level of medical coverage rich or poor. There are many ways to get there but a two tiered system is not one of them for me.

Bob

The hysterical response is triggered by National stories about Canadian medicine. Like the parents of a child that had a terminal illness. They wanted to continue to treat the kid and the government refused. They wouldn't even allow the parents to purchase treatment. The hospitals were ordered to let him die. They brought the kid here to the US for treatment. The kid finally died, but the frightening part was the governments decision to kill the kid instead of leaving it up to the parents.

That's exactly what I mean about a faceless bureaucrat deciding if you live or die. It wasn't the doctors.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

The hysterical response is triggered by National stories about Canadian medicine. Like the parents of a child that had a terminal illness. They wanted to continue to treat the kid and the government refused. They wouldn't even allow the parents to purchase treatment. The hospitals were ordered to let him die. They brought the kid here to the US for treatment. The kid finally died, but the frightening part was the governments decision to kill the kid instead of leaving it up to the parents.

That's exactly what I mean about a faceless bureaucrat deciding if you live or die. It wasn't the doctors.

I would be interested in a link or two to that story before I care to comment. I can say that a friend of mine went to our local hospital and underwent tests. They found he had a heart problem and a few days later they flew him an hour and half away to under go open heart surgery. All went well and he was flown home. Virtually no out of pocket expenses. He has absolutely no complaints. You got your stories and I have mine.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

I would be interested in a link or two to that story before I care to comment. I can say that a friend of mine went to our local hospital and underwent tests. They found he had a heart problem and a few days later they flew him an hour and half away to under go open heart surgery. All went well and he was flown home. Virtually no out of pocket expenses. He has absolutely no complaints. You got your stories and I have mine.

Bob

Ok.

Canadian Family in Life Support Battle Denied Request for Hospital Transfer | Fox News

Canadian family fights to move baby on life support to U.S. - CNN.com

Tell us again about Canadian Healthcare compassion. - Cafepharma Message Boards

Newsvine - Socialized Canadian Healthcare Denies Potentially Life Saving Operation: 'Baby Joseph' taken to U.S. in last ditch effort to prolong life

I can't believe you didn't hear about this.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

The hysterical response is triggered by National stories about Canadian medicine. Like the parents of a child that had a terminal illness. They wanted to continue to treat the kid and the government refused. They wouldn't even allow the parents to purchase treatment. The hospitals were ordered to let him die. They brought the kid here to the US for treatment. The kid finally died, but the frightening part was the governments decision to kill the kid instead of leaving it up to the parents.

That's exactly what I mean about a faceless bureaucrat deciding if you live or die. It wasn't the doctors.

Hell, we don't even half to point our fingers at Canada for such outrageous BS. Here's how our own benevolent leader plans to take care of old people. NOTICE THE SOURCE, not Fox News or some other "right wing propoganda outlet" This is from ABC the state controlled media! Apparently when we're too old to help fund his grand social experiment he's just gonna give us some pain meds and call it good. Anyone who's actually up for four more years of this nonsense ought to have their heads examined.
Obama's Health Care Solution for Elderly - Just take a Pill - YouTube