A father's Love and Rage

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

...As an example of what I believe in, the other week my MMA class was learning knife defense..

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I used to be a little confused when, as a warm up for our Krav Maga class, we used to practice stabbing people three times across the upper chest, in quick succession from left to right. I always thought it was a little extreme. Bayonet fighting, though, should ALWAYS be used to resolve conflict...

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Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

I used to be a little confused when, as a warm up for our Krav Maga class, we used to practice stabbing people three times across the upper chest, in quick succession from left to right. I always thought it was a little extreme. Bayonet fighting, though, should ALWAYS be used to resolve conflict...

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It makes perfect sense to do this, in the case of KM. KM was designed to be learned by all Israelis, not just the soldiers. I was told that one of the goals was that ordinary desk jockeys and clerks would learn enough useful skills in a short amount of time to survive the most common scenarios.

One of the big issues was that normal people are not inclined to use extreme violence, and will hesitate or freeze. This has historically always been true for drafted militia men. After WW1, analysis showed that only 18% of the soldiers shot their guns at the other side. Even at point blank range, many people didn't shoot. The reason is that killing is messy business and normal human beings don't have it in their nature. Many rank and file soldiers then were just workers who were given a gun.

Since then, training has gradually changed to include as many realistic exercises as possible. With WW2, the percentage had risen to 40ish. With vietnam it was over 80%. (I have no sources at hand so I could be off on the exact percentages)

Many people would not be able to stab another human being if they suddenly found themselves there without preparation. When adrenalin takes over, you lose virtually all thought processes and you fall back on muscle memory, habits and reflexes. By 'stabbing' a person at the beginning of each and every training session, you make it an automatic action. If you ever find yourself high on adrenalin with a knife in your hands, you will fall back to the things that will come automatically (stabbing) instead of freezing in an extreme scenario that is unfamiliar and unnatural.

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Originally Posted by Grizzley1

I couldn't agree more, sounds like you've been more than one or two as have I. But now that I'm old and broken and put back together I'm going to try and take out the other guy in the three or 4 min that I've got and if past performance is any indicator in my youth I did better than 50% now being old and broken up I'm going to try my best to tilt the odds in my favor. As for the last post I couldn't agree more, I've seen black belts and boxers and bodybuilders alike all get taken apart by seemingly very mild guys but that's just the way things go sometimes, and having a buddy watch your back with a pool cue never hurts. Just my two cents.

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Well.now that I am all grown up,I never get myself in those situations anymore.
Should an occasion like the days of old present itself ever again (unlikley) I only have two options,Run or hide:)

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Originally Posted by Bruno

It makes perfect sense to do this, in the case of KM. KM was designed to be learned by all Israelis, not just the soldiers. I was told that one of the goals was that ordinary desk jockeys and clerks would learn enough useful skills in a short amount of time to survive the most common scenarios.

One of the big issues was that normal people are not inclined to use extreme violence, and will hesitate or freeze. This has historically always been true for drafted militia men. After WW1, analysis showed that only 18% of the soldiers shot their guns at the other side. Even at point blank range, many people didn't shoot. The reason is that killing is messy business and normal human beings don't have it in their nature. Many rank and file soldiers then were just workers who were given a gun.

Since then, training has gradually changed to include as many realistic exercises as possible. With WW2, the percentage had risen to 40ish. With vietnam it was over 80%. (I have no sources at hand so I could be off on the exact percentages)

Many people would not be able to stab another human being if they suddenly found themselves there without preparation. When adrenalin takes over, you lose virtually all thought processes and you fall back on muscle memory, habits and reflexes. By 'stabbing' a person at the beginning of each and every training session, you make it an automatic action. If you ever find yourself high on adrenalin with a knife in your hands, you will fall back to the things that will come automatically (stabbing) instead of freezing in an extreme scenario that is unfamiliar and unnatural.

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That is very true and it's how Police are trained these days. Doing the same routine over and over again so in a critical situation when your brain shuts down it's the training that you automatically fall back to.

Years ago the California Highway Patrol saw a couple of their guys in a shootout with a bad guy. Both officers were killed and they found that both guys had spent shell casings in their hands and no one could figure out why in the middle of a gunfight these guys were handicapping themselves like this. The answer was, during firearms training they had to police the brass at the end which they didn't like doing so as the training progressed (in the days of revolvers) these guys emptied the brass in their hands and eventually into their pockets and when these guys were in a fight for their lives that is exactly what they did.

From Fox News:

Texas father who beat a man to death for trying to molest his 4-year-old daughter will not be charged, authorities say.

Thats a good thing:)

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Originally Posted by Bruno

It makes perfect sense to do this, in the case of KM. KM was designed to be learned by all Israelis, not just the soldiers. I was told that one of the goals was that ordinary desk jockeys and clerks would learn enough useful skills in a short amount of time to survive the most common scenarios.

One of the big issues was that normal people are not inclined to use extreme violence, and will hesitate or freeze. This has historically always been true for drafted militia men. After WW1, analysis showed that only 18% of the soldiers shot their guns at the other side. Even at point blank range, many people didn't shoot. The reason is that killing is messy business and normal human beings don't have it in their nature. Many rank and file soldiers then were just workers who were given a gun.

Since then, training has gradually changed to include as many realistic exercises as possible. With WW2, the percentage had risen to 40ish. With vietnam it was over 80%. (I have no sources at hand so I could be off on the exact percentages)

Many people would not be able to stab another human being if they suddenly found themselves there without preparation. When adrenalin takes over, you lose virtually all thought processes and you fall back on muscle memory, habits and reflexes. By 'stabbing' a person at the beginning of each and every training session, you make it an automatic action. If you ever find yourself high on adrenalin with a knife in your hands, you will fall back to the things that will come automatically (stabbing) instead of freezing in an extreme scenario that is unfamiliar and unnatural.

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Yeah, you're right. The one thing I liked about Krav Maga is that it builds on 'natural' movements, in stead of forcing you to do unnatural things. It also emphasised de-escalating conflicts, which is handy for where I work (a prison). One think I hated (or at least one thing that scared me) about myself is the tendency for me to go all out in fights and conflict situations. At times, even as a recruit instructor, I had no control at all over myself, and would, even as a child, happily get down to using anything I could (rubbish bins, bricks, my push bike) to hurt people when pushed. It took a lot to get me there, but once there I just 'snapped'. I guess that's true of a lot of people, and for me, I think it links to profound feelings of a lack of self worth as a child and teenager.

These days I have issues with road rage, running people off the road, chasing them for kilometers upong kilometers at extreme speed, SCREAMING at them through my windshield, blocking the road with my car so I could 'explain their driving deficiencies to them'. At 50 I'm starting to mellow a bit, mainly becuause I think my ability to get myself out of a sticky situation is now a lot less than when I was younger. However, I find I have to consciously re-think things like throwing empty beer bottles at cars or swerving in to them. If you're thinking I need help, you're probably right, I seem to have a lot of bottled up anger for some reason...

Oh, BTW, I saw a documentary of 'remote' warfare methods a little while ago, with people piloting drones from the comfort of America. An interestign concept...

Deep breaths Carl... deep breaths. :)

James.

OH MY,somebody got into the cooking Whine tonight:)

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Originally Posted by Bruno

When adrenalin takes over, you lose virtually all thought processes and you fall back on muscle memory, habits and reflexes. By 'stabbing' a person at the beginning of each and every training session, you make it an automatic action. If you ever find yourself high on adrenalin with a knife in your hands, you will fall back to the things that will come automatically (stabbing) instead of freezing in an extreme scenario that is unfamiliar and unnatural.

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And this is why no one ever throws surprise birthday parties for Krav Maga students. ;)