A father's Love and Rage

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Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

It's a difficult thing, but I still feel we should love our enemies. It's not their fault there is evil in the world. My nature would be to hurt them very badly, but I'd be the one to have to live with that. I couldn't reconcile that act, as much as the darker side of my nature might relish it. I'd like to think of a higher aim. I'd like to think that love could prevail. All very esoteric and airy fairy, I know...

[EDIT] To add to this...

I very much respect guys' tendencies to want to enact extreme acts of violence on the perpetrator, but, without wanting to sound condescending, we can all over emphasise our physical capabilities at times.

I think maybe at times we need to hold our ideals above any physical thing, even if that physical thing is our own child. I know that's a very extreme ideal, and I don't know if I could do it, but when I hear of parents in Africa being forced to kill their own kids, I feel that life is not worth corruption of one's values. I would certainly kill someone attacking my family with ease, but I'd still feel soiled by the act, I'm certain.

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I'm sorry, but this sounds like happy horsesh*t, If I encountered a rabid dog I could still put him down and still love dogs. I don't love my enemies,I feel sorry for them,because as a decent human being for them to be considered an enemy,they have done me or mine a great wrong,and if that IS the fact,then nothing would stop me from exacting my vengeance,especially if it concerned my kids,and I would sleep like a baby..JMHO

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Originally Posted by Crotalus

The police have stated that the father was very remorseful after the attack. Apparently the death has cause him great suffering. The police still have not released the father's name.

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I can readily believe this. It would greatly surprise me if he had planned to kill.
If you can take a human life and be casual about it, something is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Grizzley1

I'm sorry, but this sounds like happy horsesh*t, If I encountered a rabid dog I could still put him down and still love dogs. I don't love my enemies,I feel sorry for them,because as a decent human being for them to be considered an enemy,they have done me or mine a great wrong,and if that IS the fact,then nothing would stop me from exacting my vengeance,especially if it concerned my kids,and I would sleep like a baby..JMHO

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Well, that reply got a laugh out of me and you're probably right. However, maybe to feel 'sorry' for someone shows some amount of love, doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by Grizzley1

I'm sorry, but this sounds like happy horsesh*t, If I encountered a rabid dog I could still put him down and still love dogs. I don't love my enemies,I feel sorry for them,because as a decent human being for them to be considered an enemy,they have done me or mine a great wrong,and if that IS the fact,then nothing would stop me from exacting my vengeance,especially if it concerned my kids,and I would sleep like a baby..JMHO

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You're too emotionally attached to your enemies. They don't need or desire your sorrow for them. Your vengeance could come at a price to your own safety.
I'm sure the person being discussed had no emotion at all. He was simply defending his daughter & possibly himself & the only way to be sure both were safe was when the attacker was neutralised.

I have two words. "jury nullification"



R

There is a very good chance he will be "No billed" according to the sherriff. That would be nice. At a club up the road from me a man was punched one time. It killed him. Not hitting his head on the ground or a table. It was one punch and he was dead.

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Originally Posted by EMC45

There is a very good chance he will be "No billed" according to the sherriff. That would be nice. At a club up the road from me a man was punched one time. It killed him. Not hitting his head on the ground or a table. It was one punch and he was dead.

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Did he have any medical condition? Because normally, that won't happen unless there are aggravating medical circumstances.
Otherwise, boxers would die in large numbers :)

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Originally Posted by Crotalus

Last weekend, Shiner Texas.

A 23 year old man was doing some work on his farm with some acquaintances helping.

He handed his 4 year old daughter a bucket of feed and told her to go in the barn and feed the chickens.

Apparently a 40 year old acquaintance he didn't know very well lead his daughter into the bushes and started to sexually molest her.

The brother spotted them and told the father. The father saw them and hit the man several times in the head. The molester died at the scene.

The father has not been arrested. The police expect the grand jury to no-bill the father.

Did the father cross the line? Did the molester get what he deserved?

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I think the hinge on this is, did the father continue to beat the molester after he went limp? I mean if the dad cracked the molester 5 or 6 times in quick succession and reasonably stopped when he noticed the other individual went limp (give a bit of leeway for 1 or 2 blows in the heat of the moment). Then yea he should, he put the dude down and he wound up dead. However if the molester was knocked out on the first punch, and the dad knew the guy was out cold and in no way shape or form a threat. then the dad continued to beat him until he was dead. In this scenario it would be taking the law into his own hands, he was judge jury and excutioner. In the first case he defended his daughter and the guy wound up dead. IMHO that there is the hinge between justified & vigilanteeism(sp?) Anger is no justification for murder, otherwise everytime someone gets angry they can murder someone. I am sure someone was angry at you at some point in your life.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Did he have any medical condition? Because normally, that won't happen unless there are aggravating medical circumstances.
Otherwise, boxers would die in large numbers :)

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Those who die their first few times at the gym don't wind up on TV. :p

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Originally Posted by UKRob

My original point was made about taking the law in to your own hands - we all have opinions about what should be dished out to lawbreakers but my belief is that the hanging tree is not the answer. I thought the US had moved on from this 19th century mentality but some of the posts on this thread make me wonder.

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Hi Rob,
With all respects to the UK, there are two seperate but equally emotional things in this particular situation.

1. Although unintentional, the amount of raw emotion that anyone, especially a parent would experience finding so young a child in the process of being molested, and the reaction to defend somone so innocent. This would push most people into reaction beyond reason. Meaning there was NO consideration that what he was doing was passing any form of judgement and punishment, just an unbridled reaction.

This has without a doubt contributed to the fathers response, and caused the death of the molester.

Here in the U.S. most can imagine and understand a situation where reaction overrides reason (especially in defense of yourself, family or the innocent). This is why the U.S. court system allows for a jury of your peers (the common citizen) to decide guilt. It is intentional design.

In different situations like the Treyvon Martin case (I'm not making a judgement here) a jury of his peers may find that Zimmerman went beyond how the common citizen would have handled the situation and find Zimmerman guilty.

For this intentional reason the father will most likely never be found guilty. In fact most prosecutors, if they are satisfied that the father is truly, remoreseful may choose not to press charges understanding the expected outcome.

2. Citizens making an intentional decision to pass judgement and meet out there own punishment.

The U.S. court system accounts for this, in that if a reasonable person, in the same situatution would react in the same manner, then there is no pre-meditation. If the common person would resonably react different then you would or should have considered the outcome and used reason to affect justice using the proper manner and authorities.

Facing the same court system here in the U.S. in most cases will receive punishment appropriate to there crime.

Just my $0.02