Thread: Well, he died doing what he liked to do.

To me the statement doesn't make sense if you look at it rationally. Take the pilot for example. He or she didn't actually die flying a plane, they died in an out of control, non-flying plane, plummeting to the earth in a death spiral. I doubt that is what they "loved doing". They loved flying, not plummeting - and plummeting was what they were doing when they died.

So I am in the "it makes us feel better" camp, which is basically what living is about, really. Human existence is a one-way on/off switch - once it is off it is off (putting aside spiritual considerations and simply focussing on the biological). So what point is there worrying about death? It happens to us all, we all have to face it at some point. So given it is always there, you ignore it and you give life your undivided attention. Well, that is what I do. I'll worry about death when I am dead. Particularly when something is inevitable, anxiety over it is pointless and a waste of energy.

And so I believe this is why we invent these platitudes. "They died doing what they loved". "They are in a better place now." "God has called them home". These things are perhaps true - I wouldn't know, I am not dead. But the dead certainly don't care about these statements - they are dead. The only thing these platitudes do, and the only reason they exist, is to make those of us left feel better and hopefully not dwell on death. The object of the game, in my book, is to dwell on living.

James.

I took these photos when I was a 2nd year apprentice. The tall thin guy in the green shirt was one of the 3 best connectors I ever saw in 20 years of doing ironwork. I saw him fall 85 feet on September 20th 1972 at about 9:30 AM. He loved connecting but I know he didn't want to die there @ 37 years old.

Interesting discussion. I agree that "He died doing what he loved" is in fact more for the people the deceased left behind than the deceased himself. Death is a place that we're all going to visit eventually and the result will be the same whether we die of a heart attack mounted atop a 20 something hard body or we're hit head on by a drunk driver some night. At the end of the day, the circumstances involved can only matter to those that survive. Statements like the aforementioned or "he was a brave man who died for his country" only serve to paint someone's untimely death in a more palatable or nobel light. If in fact the deceased could ring into the discussion, I suspect in most cases, their preference would be to remain alive and keep doing the things they love.

FWIW, there IS a historical precedent for accidental str8 razor death. It indirectly resulted in what is without question a great American Novel Walden by Henry David Thoreau. Thoreau's brother John, cut himself shaving and later developed lockjaw and died Henry David Thoreau (second paragraph about half way down). Thoreau was very close to his brother and hoped to clear his head by spending some time on Walden pond. The rest, as they say, is literary history.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

To me the statement doesn't make sense if you look at it rationally. Take the pilot for example. He or she didn't actually die flying a plane, they died in an out of control, non-flying plane, plummeting to the earth in a death spiral. I doubt that is what they "loved doing". They loved flying, not plummeting - and plummeting was what they were doing when they died.

So I am in the "it makes us feel better" camp, which is basically what living is about, really. Human existence is a one-way on/off switch - once it is off it is off (putting aside spiritual considerations and simply focussing on the biological). So what point is there worrying about death? It happens to us all, we all have to face it at some point. So given it is always there, you ignore it and you give life your undivided attention. Well, that is what I do. I'll worry about death when I am dead. Particularly when something is inevitable, anxiety over it is pointless and a waste of energy.

And so I believe this is why we invent these platitudes. "They died doing what they loved". "They are in a better place now." "God has called them home". These things are perhaps true - I wouldn't know, I am not dead. But the dead certainly don't care about these statements - they are dead. The only thing these platitudes do, and the only reason they exist, is to make those of us left feel better and hopefully not dwell on death. The object of the game, in my book, is to dwell on living.

James.

When you step into the cockpit you never know what will happen. You know the saying "you buy the ticket and you take the ride". To think I'm just gonna fly around and have a good time is something only a fool would think. Anything could happen either beyond your control or because of something you do or don't do. You can't divorce it from the good part of flying. You accept the fact you may never get to go home. So the plummet to earth is all part of flying and I can guarantee while in that death spiral he's not saying gee I'm glad I'm dying this way. His mind is preoccupied with other thoughts for sure.

Is there any such a thing as "a good death?" Or any better way to die than another?

All of us die alone, at least in the last five minutes. After our eyes close there is still 4-6 minutes of oxygen left for the brain and the heart and when that runs out, you can only hope that you're unconscious and don't feel the heart starving for oxygen, cause that's just like a heart attack = pain. It doesn't matter who is holding your hand, you don't feel it any longer. You're alone.

I don't know how to respond to the tales of coming back from the dead with intact memories cause the brain hasn't got oxygen to collect memories. So they might not have been really most sincerely dead.

This is a recent news event in my area. It combines a couple of thoughts from this thread

State Health Dept warns swimmers of deadly amoeba | kare11.com

If you watch the video at the beginning the girls mother states, " And she loved swimming, She was a fish." A way for the living to cope with their loss.

Then comes up the idea of risk. From what I understand about 2 people a year in the U.S. die from this. In my thinking this is basically no risk at all. But if you heed the warnings you would not dare to go swimming and if by chance you ignored that at least you should wear nose plugs!

I think that whatever a persons risk threshold is they in the least subconsciously think of it. Risk V.S. Reward. Money, Family, Country, Social Status, or Personal Satisfaction all play a roll.

I find it interesting that for myself as I have gotten older I have lost my immortality and take fewer risks. I have less to loose and yet take fewer risks.

I know for sure that when I die I will be doing something I love and that is LIVING!

Tim

“What did it matter where you lay once you were dead ? In a dirty sump or in a marble tower on top of a high hill ? You were dead, you were sleeping the big sleep, you were not bothered by things like that, oil and water were the same as wind and air to you. You just slept the big sleep, not caring about the nastiness of how you died or where you fell."

Raymond Chandler, The Big Sleep

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Is there any such a thing as "a good death?" Or any better way to die than another?

All of us die alone, at least in the last five minutes. After our eyes close there is still 4-6 minutes of oxygen left for the brain and the heart and when that runs out, you can only hope that you're unconscious and don't feel the heart starving for oxygen, cause that's just like a heart attack = pain. It doesn't matter who is holding your hand, you don't feel it any longer. You're alone.

I don't know how to respond to the tales of coming back from the dead with intact memories cause the brain hasn't got oxygen to collect memories. So they might not have been really most sincerely dead.

Good Death, absolutly,when you watch a parent die of terminal cancer after a two year battle,Thats a good death,for my mother and the family,Thats also going to a better place.
When blood flow to the brain stops you are instantly rendered unconscious, you have 4 minutes of Oxygen bound to the hemoglobin to keep the brain alive at Normothermic temps.During that 4 minutes you can feel nothing.

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

When blood flow to the brain stops you are instantly rendered unconscious, you have 4 minutes of Oxygen bound to the hemoglobin to keep the brain alive at Normothermic temps.During that 4 minutes you can feel nothing.

One of my former business agents in the ironworkers , was shot in the heart, assuming he really had one, and died. I have always wondered if he had time..... before the brain shut down..... to think about it. It was supposedly an accident with his 44 magnum no less, but I've never believed it was accidental.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Is there any such a thing as "a good death?" Or any better way to die than another?
All of us die alone, at least in the last five minutes. After our eyes close there is still 4-6 minutes of oxygen left for the brain and the heart and when that runs out, you can only hope that you're unconscious and don't feel the heart starving for oxygen, cause that's just like a heart attack = pain. It doesn't matter who is holding your hand, you don't feel it any longer. You're alone.

I don't know how to respond to the tales of coming back from the dead with intact memories cause the brain hasn't got oxygen to collect memories. So they might not have been really most sincerely dead.

Oh, yes there is. I've seen enough death to know there is.
As far as the dying alone part of your post, I think you getting a bit technical.
It's that "last" image or exchange that I consciously experience that I care about; I could give a damn about what happens when my eyes close.