Thread: U.S. Military - heartbreaking losses

Lz6,
Did you share in their "rendezvous with destiny" during your career? I was attached to the 101st ABN DIV both tours and the tours were 2 years apart? How odd is that?

Originally Posted by OldSoldier

Lz6,
Did you share in their "rendezvous with destiny" during your career? I was attached to the 101st ABN DIV both tours and the tours were 2 years apart? How odd is that?

I had several months with the Division in Kentucky arriving from Benning in early fall of 65 as the 1st Bde was still deploying. I was then sent TDY with several other Pathfinders back to Benning with last units of the 11th CAB being deployed by troopship to nam and then to the 11th CAB at Phu Loi. There was a shortage of Pathfinders in country at that point. The 11th CAB Security Platoon later was reorganized as a Pathfinder Platoon. I guess the first real test of the air mobile concept
was the Ia Drang valley 1st Cavarly win against nva. Pathfinder usage was developing quickly as the Chinook companies began arriving and the hooks began moving redleg batteries slingloading the howitzers and with ammo in a secondary
net below the ammo. life was either Infantry assaults or artillery moves on about an equal basis. The Pathfinders at Phu Loi
flew door gunner missions on slicks whe there were no Pathfinder missions.
I remain a life member of the 101st Abn Div Assn as well as the Vietnam Helicopter Veterans Assn and the U.S. Pathfinder Assn.

Winston Churchill that said "Jaw Jaw is always better than War War". Sooner or later, no matter how many civilians and soldiers are killed or injured, things have to be resolved by compromise.
The heartbreaking thing is that we can't cut to the chase and solve things by talking before the killing starts.
It's desparately sad that some us glorify the accomplishment of killing, even those of us who say that we are members of religions that condemn it.

I never joined the 101st Ass'n even though I was attached to them for 2 comabt tours. It just didn't feel right. I figure the Ass'n is for the soldier who were/are assigned to the 101st, not attached. However, I proudly wear the Screamin' Eagle right shoulder patch or did so until the day I retired. Inside I will always consider myself a part of the Division's history because I helped write a very small portion of it, as you did during your war.
Lastly, WELCOME HOME brother. Air Assault!

Thanks OldSoldier, and Welcome Home to you as well. You would be welcome in the Association especially with two combat tours. You would be welcome as a Double Eagle. The WWII member ranks are thinning very quickly and agent orange is taking a toll on the Vietnam members. I always enjoy the stories in the Association monthly magazine from honorary Belgian members and Belgian citizens as well. That country has showed a great deal of respect for the 101st Paratroopers to this day and many long term friendships have been formed through the years. My wife's Uncle rests in one of the American Cemeteries in Belgium. We are able to have flowers put at his grave on Memorial Day by local citizens. He was
a 20 year old Army Air Corps B-17 ball turret gunner killed on his 23rd mission near Muenster (sp) Germany. He and what was left of the crew were buried by members of a small countryside Church in the Church cemetery with their dog tags
used as markers on wood crosses. Most kind of the German locals. At the end of the war U.S. graves registration exhumed
the bodies for removal to the Belgian cemetery. We later through records searching found a hand written note from the
senior member present from graves registration that the German Church held a special service that day and placed flowers
on the fly boys caskets. A true showing of Christian good faith amid the absolute hell that WWII was for all involved.

This is so far off topic I apologize for the thread jack.

Look I don't want to be a killjoy here, but they have only been recording these stats since 2009 if I understand it correctly, so what are we basing these high numbers against? What's the suicide rate in America outside of the military? Is it higher or lower?

The fact that so many soldiers aren't able to provide a living to their family's that they wish, might just have more to do with it than seeing action? Who knows?

These numbers without context... "for me"... as tragic as they are, and they are tragic, aren't telling the whole story. Context is key...

Originally Posted by earcutter

Look I don't want to be a killjoy here, but they have only been recording these stats since 2009 if I understand it correctly, so what are we basing these high numbers against? What's the suicide rate in America outside of the military? Is it higher or lower?

The fact that so many soldiers aren't able to provide a living to their family's that they wish, might just have more to do with it than seeing action? Who knows?

These numbers without context... "for me"... as tragic as they are, and they are tragic, aren't telling the whole story. Context is key...

All very true. I haven't seen the actual statistical reports nor the breakdown of the numbers but knowing the military I'm sure they have them broke down 100 ways from Sunday. Money could be a very major factor for the returning veterans who get out of the military and find their new income fails to meet their debts. For the veterans who stay in after they return from combat there are also financial issues upon return but not AS bad.
I'll mention some of the common iisue I am aware of for returning soldiers I have witnessed 1st hand multiple times after not just Iraq or Trashcanistan but a short tour in Korea, Okinawa, or even going to the field for anywhere from 3 days to 3 months or going on float for 6 months.
1. Unfaithful spouses or partners
2. Change of duty assignment
3. transfer to a new post
4. Fianacial harship due to loss of special or "incentive" pay while in hazardous areas.
Those are just the major ones I can think of real quick but I am sure you cam imagine how they might effect a young person or even an older person who isn't ready for sudden change.
To be completely honest with you, I don't know what the numbers are when comparing the suicide rates of civilians and military. It is something I don't choose to focus on. Does that make me a part of the problem? Since I am no longer directly connected to the military nor do I interact with soldiers any more, I really don't think so. BUT the soldiers soldiers who served with me over the years have always know I am here for them 24/7.
I don't have the magic answer, God knows I wish I did because there is no bigger tragedy than a person thinking the only way to stop the pain is to kill him or herself. I have seen it 1st hand a couple of times and it is beyond sad for everyone involved. I have to stop here. Forgive me.

OldSoldier - you write very well. What I am trying to say is, re-reading my post, after reading yours makes me feel kind of like an insensitive... @ss! And I know that wasn't your intention.

There is no question that it's an issue even if it's lower than national average that needs to be addressed; as soldiers by their very essence are agents of every citizen for which country they fight!

I agree that the US military will have the breakdown 100 ways till Sunday, and I wish they would report that. I know stereotyping isn't in vogue, but these kind of details are important! Say it's lower than the national average - we could be proud and promote that... you know? The numbers on their own though, do nothing for those thinking about it other than say - look other guys are doing it.

Anyway...

Originally Posted by lz6

The WWII member ranks are thinning very quickly and agent orange is taking a toll on the Vietnam members. I always enjoy the stories in the Association monthly magazine from honorary Belgian members and Belgian citizens as well. That country has showed a great deal of respect for the 101st Paratroopers to this day and many long term friendships have been formed through the years. My wife's Uncle rests in one of the American Cemeteries in Belgium. We are able to have flowers put at his grave on Memorial Day by local citizens. He was
a 20 year old Army Air Corps B-17 ball turret gunner killed on his 23rd mission near Muenster (sp) Germany. He and what was left of the crew were buried by members of a small countryside Church in the Church cemetery with their dog tags
used as markers on wood crosses. Most kind of the German locals. At the end of the war U.S. graves registration exhumed
the bodies for removal to the Belgian cemetery. We later through records searching found a hand written note from the
senior member present from graves registration that the German Church held a special service that day and placed flowers
on the fly boys caskets. A true showing of Christian good faith amid the absolute hell that WWII was for all involved.

Brother, those are the kinds of stories you only see or hear in movies and or books; they are so remarkable they have to be true because you can't make it up. I have read a couple other stories about the people of Belgium and how they tried to help the paratroopers during Operation Market Garden. Their efforts definitely fall under the heading of bravery. It is truly remarkable that their love for Americans, especially their liberators is so strong still today more than 70 years later.
When I think of what it must have been like for the up front line soldiers of WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam I am almost embarrassed to call myself a "combat" veteran. Okay, I'm off the soapbox..
BTW, is it possible to hijack your own thread?

I Thought this a good place to post this. God Bless our Military.




Vietnam: A little history most people will never know



"Maybe not the Greatest generation, but a generation who gave its life generously for its country, with no gratitude, just plain vanilla patriotism."


Interesting Veterans Statistics off the Vietnam Memorial Wall


There are 58,267 names now listed on that polished black wall, including those added in 2010.


The names are arranged in the order in which they were taken from us by date and within each date the names are alphabetized. It is hard to believe it is 36 years since the last casualties.


The first known casualty was Richard B. Fitzgibbon, of North Weymouth , Mass. Listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having been killed on June 8, 1956. His name is listed on the
Wall with that of his son, Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Richard B. Fitzgibbon III, who was killed on Sept. 7, 1965.


There are three sets of fathers and sons on the Wall.


39,996 on the Wall were just 22 or younger.


8,283 were just 19 years old.


The largest age group, 23,103 were 18 years old.


12 soldiers on the Wall were 17 years old.


5 soldiers on the Wall were 16 years old.


One soldier, PFC Dan Bullock was 15 years old.


997 soldiers were killed on their first day in Vietnam .


1,448 soldiers were killed on their last day in Vietnam .


31 sets of brothers are on the Wall.


31 sets of parents lost 2 of their sons.


54 soldiers attended Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia . I wonder why so many from one school.


8 Women are on the Wall. Nursing the wounded.


244 soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War; 153 of them are on the Wall.


Beallsville, Ohio with a population of 475 lost 6 of her sons.


West Virginia had the highest casualty rate per capita in the nation.


There are 711 West Virginians on the Wall.


The Marines of Morenci - They led some of the scrappiest high school football and basketball teams that the little Arizona copper town of Morenci (pop. 5,058) had ever known and cheered.
They enjoyed roaring beer busts. In quieter moments, they rode horses along the Coronado Trail, stalked deer in the Apache National Forest . And in the patriotic camaraderie typical of Morenci's mining families, the nine graduates of Morenci High enlisted as a group in the Marine Corps. Their service began on Independence Day, 1966. Only 3 returned home.


The Buddies of Midvale - LeRoy Tafoya, Jimmy Martinez, Tom Gonzales were all boyhood friends and lived on three consecutive streets in Midvale, Utah on Fifth, Sixth and Seventh avenues.
They lived only a few yards apart. They played ball at the adjacent sandlot ball field. And they all went to Vietnam . In a span of 16 dark days in late 1967, all three would be killed. LeRoy was
killed on Wednesday, Nov. 22, the fourth anniversary of John F. Kennedy's assassination. Jimmy died less than 24 hours later on Thanksgiving Day. Tom was shot dead assaulting the enemy
on Dec. 7, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.


The most casualty deaths for a single day was on January 31, 1968 ~ 245 deaths.


The most casualty deaths for a single month was May 1968 - 2,415 casualties were incurred.


For most Americans who read this they will only see the numbers that the Vietnam War created. To those of us who survived the war, and to the families of those who did not,
we see the faces, we feel the pain that these numbers created. We are, until we too pass away, haunted with these numbers, because they were our friends, fathers, husbands, wives,
sons and daughters. There are no noble wars, just noble warriors.



"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to
dominate our lives and interests".
- Patrick Henry