Thread: Calling all grammar nazis

When I was in Brazil an acquaintance wanted help with her English homework. I obliged but she ended up missing two of the questions. Man, was she pissed. She could not believe that I missed any questions on an English assignment. I think the instructor was wrong. I am fairly sure I was right. I could not push the issue since, well, she was supposed to do the assignment on her on. Funny thing, most Brazilians could not speak grammatically correct Portuguese. Or at least I never heard them.

Originally Posted by Mephisto

grammatically correct Portuguese.

Is there such a thing? :-)

On a more serious note, I agree with Lee's statement/quote that it's all about meaning. Grammar was "invented" so that the meaning of a given sentence would be clear.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Grammar was "invented" so that the meaning of a given sentence would be clear.

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

Couldn't she just say: "My momma and me done went out and got us some of them chitlins"?

Originally Posted by Cangooner

When I was a grad student in Scotland one of my flatmates was a German economist who would go on hilarious rants about how insane the English was to learn. I have heard that apart from Finnish (which if I understand correctly has grammatical rules that are followed, jut a LOT of them) English tends to be the trickiest European language for adults to learn as a second language because there are so many exceptions.

Or should I say 'since' there are so many exceptions...

You could say that, but unless the connection was temporal instead of causal, you would be in error. It is, however, possible to do something since and because of something else.

Originally Posted by Cangooner

When I was a grad student in Scotland one of my flatmates was a German economist who would go on hilarious rants about how insane the English was to learn. I have heard that apart from Finnish (which if I understand correctly has grammatical rules that are followed, jut a LOT of them) English tends to be the trickiest European language for adults to learn as a second language because there are so many exceptions.

Or should I say 'since' there are so many exceptions...

I would phrase it thusly: "...due to so many exceptions..."

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

However, the grammar nazis on wikipedia say that "the original tense can be used provided that it remains equally valid at the time of the reporting of the statement". If that is true, then the grammar rules allow for your "She has dinner with her sister", and your boss can be happy

Example from http://www.englisch-hilfen.de/en/grammar/reported.htm:

Reported speech - English Grammar
Statements

1) If the introductory sentence starts in the present (Susan says), there is no backshift of tenses in Reported speech.

Example:
Direct speech: Susan: "I work in an office."
Reported speech: Susan says that she works in an office.

2) If the introductory sentence starts in the past (Susan said), there is often backshift of tenses in Reported speech. (see: Note)

Example:
Susan: "I work in an office."
Susan said that she worked in an office.

He said, she said, this is all hearsay anyway

edit: anyway I guess the point is that you probably need to use "She says [not 'she said'] that she has [not 'had'] dinner with her sister" if you don't want to mangle it and still follow the rules of Reported Speech

Of course, one may simply use the standard phrase "That's what she said", which is always the same

Why can't you say 'Susan says she works in an office?'.

I like grammar, and I'm a pedantic arsehole who can pick a misplaced apostrophe from 50 paces. The other day, I was standing with a group of teachers in my office, and a piece of paper was passed from one person, via me, to another. It literally was in front of me for maybe a second. I said 'I'd check the spelling in that heading if I were you'. Someone said, 'How did he do that; he didn't even look at it!?'

I'm pedantic about apostrophes, but like to lean towards Kafka-ism in my 'writing'. I love how Kafka builds and builds, with commas scattered on the page with utter abandon; sentences that go for a page (his short story The Sudden Stroll). I'm NEVER going to say 'For whom are you making that cup of coffee' because it sounds wanky. I want to communicate a feel, and if I need to dispense with rules to do it, I'll do it. It's about communication. Are you communicating what you what to communicate? Have you read Riddley Walker? Incredible book; incredible. Where's the grammar in that? Where's the grammar in Walt Whitman, or Dylan Thomas? I know that's poetry and not a legal document or something, but I'm trying to make a point that I think once one has the basics, it's all about style from then on in.

I think your boss is missguided. Why don't you get all your students to stand on their tables and say 'Captain my Captain' when he comes into your classroom next?

Oh, clearly I have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm very implausible, you know...

Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

Why don't you get all your students to stand on their tables and say 'Captain my Captain' when he comes into your classroom next?

Why? Because I would like to keep my job.

I suppose that being old enough to have been taught english and grammer the old style and having a wife that is a medical transcriptionist I am aware of proper grammer, but don't always follow my own rules. For the life of me I couldn't diagram a sentence today if I had to but years ago we all had to. I am not sure it helped us speak proper english.

I do get irritated these days (yes I mean now) with a couple of things. My daughter is a special education teacher and still has the habit of starting a sentence with "Anyways". That has driven me nuts since she picked it up years ago. I also hear my friends and colleagues say "flustrated". Flustered? Frustrated? For me perhaps both when I hear that especially if they aren't drinking at the time.

I also am puzzled by the use of "then" in place of "than" when people type or post. Is that because of typing muscle memory or do people just not think or know better? There is a distinct difference in the two words. If people are typing too fast, then I understand, but I would rather be correct than incorrect so I tend to proof read.

In any case, learning english as a second language would be very difficult. And, we do not help here either, I recall the phone commercial that had the catch phrase " Where you at?" Give me a break!

Will N.