Thread: The 49th anniversary of the JFK assassination.

I was only 2 years at the time, no memory of anything. I did visit the book depository in Dallas in 2008 & was able to stand close to the famous window. I don't know if there was a second shooter, we probably never will. My research of the incident is almost zero; so my opinion, as to a conspiracy, is worth zero also.

I do remember having a confident feeling that the shot from the window, on the moving, open vehicle, could have been made by any number of avid hunters in this country; even with the rifle he used.

A sad day, yes it was.

A photo of the building I took that day. The 6th floor open window.

I remember that day well. I was in the fifth grade. The teacher from across the hall barged into our room and announced in a loud voice "The President has been shot!" Then a few minutes later, she opened the door again and said "The President is dead!" Our teacher left the room for a long time and we all just sat there looking at each other. When she came back, she just told us to go home. The other classes were being let out at the same time.

When I got home, my mother was sitting in front of the TV crying. She didn't move from that chair for the rest of the day. I don't think she stopped crying, either. That as the end of innocence for me.

I was too young to pay much attention to President Eisenhower, but Jack Kennedy got my attention because of the effect he had on my mother and on my friends' parents. I liked his Boston accent and how he mispronounced certain words like "Cuber" and "Africer" when he gave his speeches. His body language when he wasn't standing behind a podium also showed he was pretty self-conscious. This ten-year-old found that facet of Kennedy rather endearing.

There's no doubt in my mind that someday when folks no longer care, the truth about Kennedy's assassination will come out. Walter Cronkite or one of the other big names in TV news interviewed some kind of weapons specialist the day after the assassination or maybe two days after. They were at a rifle range and the guy had the same model Mauser bolt action rifle that Lee Harvey Oswald had allegedly used. He attempted to fire the same number of rounds that Oswald fired at a fixed target in the same time frame as the shots fired at President Kennedy and Governor Conally. The guy was firing from a seated position with his left elbow supported by a shelf and he was barely able to hit the target. The way he struggled with that bolt action clearly demonstrated that model of Mauser was pretty much useless for accurate rapid fire at a fixed target, let alone a moving target that was several floors below the shooter. IIRC, the guy did mention Oswald had been a marine and Marines did receive extensive firearms training, but he didn't think that Oswald could have made all those shots himself using that Mauser.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. . . .

Oswald had great training (and that's just the training that we know about, remember...), the will to shoot & his weapon of choice. I don't see a problem with him scoring at least 1 of those hits, don't get me wrong Morty, it's just a discussion among friends, but the "expert" in that case did not have LHO's training, mindset, nor did he have that exact rifle, he had a model like it. JMO

"The guy was firing from a seated position with his left elbow supported by a shelf and he was barely able to hit the target. The way he struggled with that bolt action clearly demonstrated that model of Mauser was pretty much useless for accurate rapid fire at a fixed target, let alone a moving target that was several floors below the shooter. IIRC, the guy did mention Oswald had been a marine and Marines did receive extensive firearms training, but he didn't think that Oswald could have made all those shots himself using that Mauser."

I have heard this argument made before. Although no expert, I have fired the 6.5 mm Carcano military bolt action rifle. There are many technical reasons why other military surplus bolt action rifles, such as the Mausers, were far more favored for sportarization by shooting affectionados making the Carcano very inexpensive. In its stock military form, the Carcano, like many military rifles, was equipped with rugged but relatively crude iron sites that, unlike American military rifles, could not be adjusted low enough to hit small targets at close range, but the Carcano could certainly work well enough on larger targets, especially when equipped with an aftermarket adjustable scope. The Italians are noted for building capable firearms. I do not believe that the assasination was impossible using only the Carcano. However, a semi-automatic rifle with straight back low recoil (minimal muzzle rise) would have been a much more certain choice of rifle for making multiple shots. I think that any professional assassin would have used such a weapon at close range.

There is also a theory about the driver?

It's remarkable,,the driver's got "3" hands; two on the steering wheel & a third one that pops out of his chest!

Naples Italy,,, we woke up to the MP's banging on the door giving my Pops and all the other US servicemen in the building the news that there was an alert called... We didn't see them for 3 more days...
We went to the roof of the building and watch the US fleet move out, the carrier (IIRC USS Enterprise) left her escorts behind and we could see the jets launching as she went...

For many years I thought that the conspiracy involved LHO and everyone else, but later three things changed my mind and now I believe that the only "Conspiracy" was the normal government/political CYA

However the three things

#1.) LHO attempted to shoot General Walker this is just a small piece on it..

Edwin Walker assassination attempt

In March 1963, Oswald purchased a 6.5 mm caliber Carcano rifle by mail-order, using the alias A. Hidell, as well as a .38 Smith & Wesson Model 10 revolver by the same method.

Marina Oswald testified to the Warren Commission that Lee Harvey Oswald confessed to her on the night of April 10, 1963, that he shot at General Edwin Walker with his rifle, and buried the rifle that night. The Warren Commission concluded that on April 10, 1963, Oswald attempted to kill retired U.S. Major General Edwin Walker, an outspoken anti-communist, segregationist, and member of the John Birch Society. In 1961, Walker had been relieved of his command of the 24th Division of the U.S. Army in West Germany for distributing right-wing literature to his troops. Walker's later actions in opposition to racial integration at the University of Mississippi led to his arrest on insurrection, seditious conspiracy, and other charges. He was temporarily held in a mental institution on orders from President Kennedy's brother, Attorney General Robert Kennedy, but a grand jury refused to indict him. Oswald's wife, Marina told the Warren Commission that Oswald considered Walker the leader of a "fascist organization."

The Warren Commission concluded that Oswald fired at Walker through a window, from less than 100 feet (30 m) away, as Walker sat at a desk in his home; the bullet struck the window-frame and Walker's only injury was bullet fragments to the forearm. Marina testified to the Warren Commission that Oswald told her that he had shot at Walker. (The United States House Select Committee on Assassinations stated that the "evidence strongly suggested" that Oswald carried out the shooting.)

Before the Kennedy assassination, Dallas police had no suspects in the Walker shooting,[72] but Oswald's involvement was suspected within hours of his arrest following the assassination. (A note Oswald left for Marina on the night of the attempt, telling her what to do if he did not return, was not found until early December 1963.) The Walker bullet was too damaged to run conclusive ballistics studies on it, but neutron activation analysis later showed that it was "extremely likely" that it was made by the same manufacturer and for the same rifle make as the two bullets which later struck Kennedy.

George de Mohrenschildt, friend of the Oswalds when they were in Dallas, told the Warren Commission that he strongly suspected that Oswald took a 'pot shot' at General Walker, because the following weekend, on the Saturday night before Easter Sunday, April 13, 1963, George and Jeanne De Mohrenschildt brought an Easter bunny to baby June Oswald, and when Marina was showing Jeanne their new apartment, Oswald's dug-up rifle appeared in a closet. Jeanne exclaimed to George that Lee had a rifle, and George joked to Lee, "Were you the one who took a pot-shot at General Walker?" At this point Lee and Marina both became stunned for an uncomfortable moment of silence, and then George broke the ice by laughing, and they all laughed. George de Mohrenschildt testified that this was the last time he ever saw Oswald, and that he had a strong feeling that Oswald was guilty of shooting at General Walker

#2) The shots have been duplicated by quite a few people now that the timing was corrected, and the first shot is understood to be from a loaded breech and requires no cycling of the action..
In fact one of the men that did the early shooting trials and accomplished it, worte his own book with his theories that the fatal head shot was actual an accidental mis-fire from a CAR-15 that the SS had in the follow car (an interesting read I will try and remember the name of the book)..

#3 The reason I started looking at the other side of the coin in the first place, an obscure article in G&A about Elephant Poachers in Africa talking about the ballistics involved with shooting Elephants and using FMJ rounds and medium velocity and being able to almost reload them again because of the near zero deformation on travel through the animals.. I stuck me that the loads they were talking about would explain the "Magic Bullet" so I started looking at the JFK shooting again...

There has been a lot written about the Carcano and Oswald's ability, or the lack, in marksmanship. If he was the lone gunman I wonder what it would have been like ? He only had 3 or 4 rounds. No spare rounds were found at his home, or at the scene. It seems odd to me that a man would not have more ammo in such a scenario. So he went to work that day, having read in the paper the day before that the parade route has been changed bringing the president's limo around the school book depository.

Now he is at the window , we presume, with the junk rifle and the ill fitting scope. So he had one locked and loaded and they say the first shot hit behind the limousine. So he got off 3 shots in 6 seconds. He is shooting at the president of the united states. Was he nervous ? He was never an expert riflemen in the Marine Corps. He had to pull the trigger, operate the bolt ...... and mark his target again .... through the cheap shoddy ill fitting scope. Could he have done it ?

Here is one of many conflicting websites reviewing LHO's marksmanship and tests done with the rifle he is alleged to have used by Gov agencies.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

#3 The reason I started looking at the other side of the coin in the first place, an obscure article in G&A about Elephant Poachers in Africa talking about the ballistics involved with shooting Elephants and using FMJ rounds and medium velocity and being able to almost reload them again because of the near zero deformation on travel through the animals.. I stuck me that the loads they were talking about would explain the "Magic Bullet" so I started looking at the JFK shooting again...[/B]

Did he really attempt to assassinate Walker ? I don't think it has ever been proven. Did he shoot J.D. Tippet ? Never proven either and there is conflicting eye witness testimony. Marina Oswald can not be considered a valid witness at the time due to FBI tactics and her fear of deportation.

As to the ballistics. The full metal jacket rounds used in the Carcano are not consistent with the final shot that blew half of the president's head off. That was more like a high velocity frangible varmint round AFAIC. YMMV.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

There has been a lot written about the Carcano and Oswald's ability, or the lack, in marksmanship. If he was the lone gunman I wonder what it would have been like ? He only had 3 or 4 rounds. No spare rounds were found at his home, or at the scene. It seems odd to me that a man would not have more ammo in such a scenario. So he went to work that day, having read in the paper the day before that the parade route has been changed bringing the president's limo around the school book depository.

Now he is at the window , we presume, with the junk rifle and the ill fitting scope. So he had one locked and loaded and they say the first shot hit behind the limousine. So he got off 3 shots in 6 seconds. He is shooting at the president of the united states. Was he nervous ? He was never an expert riflemen in the Marine Corps. He had to pull the trigger, operate the bolt ...... and mark his target again .... through the cheap shoddy ill fitting scope. Could he have done it ?

Here is one of many conflicting websites reviewing LHO's marksmanship and tests done with the rifle he is alleged to have used by Gov agencies.

I'll never say that he was the only shooter, I do believe that he was more than capable of making the shot. I read the link, and IMO it is more than a little leaning, on an "impossible shot" from the beginning of the article. You don't have to be an expert badge winner in the Corps, to be a hell of a shot. There are three levels, LHO did make "Marksman" the first level, a requirement in a time where you literally got your butt kicked & placed back into another platoon, if you did not qualify. Carlos Hathcock knew the type of training LHO went through, which makes me think that Carlos Hathcock, had his mind made up before the his test. I've read all I could find on Carlos Hathcock & watched videos on him, God rest his sole, he was out there, to say the least.

LHO was a determined nut, I think few on either side would refute & nuts don't respond to mental pressure or environmental stimuli the way the rest of us would.

Everyday experts line up to prove their case, on both sides of an issue, I see this being no different. JMO.