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20 dead young children,7 adults by a nutcase back east with a semi .223 today.
This country needs some manner of gun control.As a lifelong NRA Member,I am not continueing my membership as of today.
The 2nd ammendment advocates are a bunch of wacko nut cases IMO.
I just read this on the net and am actually brought to tears.
God has foresakin this once great country.Rant over:(
I too shed a tear, and thought for my wife (teacher) and 5 year old step-daughter.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
I hope something changes.
Well my thinking is only mentally unstable people would do something like this. So perhaps gun control is only a small part of the equation - what about mental health care?
James.
That too James. The problem with mental health care is that those people are often only identified AFTER they do something crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
One would hope that mental health care would definitely help though.
I work in social services with children with mental health issues. We are begging for funding, literally. It really all starts at home though. broken homes create broken children. Some are tough enough to make it, others just crack.
You have to wonder why we now have several generations that are capable to doing this sort of thing. I do not recall one incident of this nature when growing up.
Bob
Agree 100%,but any Human can become unstable for all manner of reasons within minutes,if said human has access to an AR 15 and 1000 rnds of ammo,You will have a major problem occur 9 times out of 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
I am going to a gunshow tomorrow in Roseville Ca.What i will see is maybe 10 vendors selling all manner of parts for assault weopens,These are not rifles that people use to put food on the table,these are rifles best suited for killing people.
I will see vendors selling case lots of .223 ammo (1000 rnds) why?
Mental health issues are rampant world wide,openly making available (and leagally) non-sporting weopens,huge capacity magazines, as much ammo as you can have,is stupid,JMO
Nor do I bobQuote:
Originally Posted by BobH
I have theories, but mostly it falls on parents letting kids play violent video games all day long instead of parenting them, taking them outdoors, teaching them about art and literatur, teaching them about their heritage etc. That coupled with the horrible processed food that most of us ingest and some other factors have lead us to the epidemic we have now with so many children having serious mental health issues. I know the shooter was 24, but something had to have gone wrong in his past.
So does my wife. Although i've been in the military (and 3 deployments) for almost the whole of my adult life, i'll bet she (and you) has seen things i couldn't live with.Quote:
Originally Posted by alb1981
Having said this, i'm not to argue about the gun laws here or there. All i'm interested is that why nowadays it is so easy to see the solution in taking the gun and start killing. Not only people you have something to disagree with but innocent bystanders, this time kids, as well. What makes 'kill them all' or even just 'kill' to be a solution?
I have no answer.
Now, i can't even imagine the horror and pain of those involved. I have no words to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Yeah great, another misinformed rant :(
Why not wait for the facts, sorry you sound like ya work for MSNBC :(
Didn't even get the guns right, in fact they are not even sure which Brother was the shooter yet let's all blame the gun first, the Great Liberal punch line as always....
Wonder how many gun laws he broke BEFORE he pulled a trigger ???
Have no fear Obamacare is here :rofl2: it will pay for all those crazies to have Pot and the Good happy happy joy joy drugs..
Yeah rant over
When you get the facts,pls post them up.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
To bad you didn't wait...Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
I'm not sure it was a misinformed rant - I read it more as Pixel is sincerely upset and angry over this shooting, and is venting his frustration.
I do not understand why it matters what gun it was. People were shot dead with a gun. 28 people, the majority of which were children. Does knowing the correct calibre and automatic-status of the weapon used make any difference?
James.
It's so sad to see these things unraveling, the topic has been discussed all day at my job today. I feel like instead of trying to hunt down pot growers, hunt down the gun runners; you don't here about the ATF making stings on illegal weapons trades anymore, just pot, meth, and then these situations. You can't blame the guns for these events though, the person holding the weapon is responsible. Some say take the guns away problem solved, well they outlawed liquor and pot all together at different times in history and you see how that turned out. If someone wants a gun they will get it regardless. I would rather have people with guns that are traceable, registered, and the ability to distinguish rifleing between them in these situations vrs. some random guy w/ an illegal gun that doesn't have any way of being traced b/c they are illegal so he shouldn't have it. It's like some one getting stabbed and the gov't taking away all the knives; you can't punish all for one person's deeds. Last, I want my gun to help protect me from nutcases like this who manage to get ahold of a weapon. Just how I feel about it, so nothing personal or any shots towards anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Yes look at the title of the thread same as the Liberal media is playing out
There will never be "Gun Control" in the USA but another "Assault Weapon" ban is possible, that could gain traction just like it did before on pure fiction, which is why it was rolled back it didn't make a difference at all..
The un-informed spouting and listening to fiction, sorta like the un-informed thinking they are going to get free heatlh care or even cheaper health care
as their Insurance premiums keep going higher...
Fiction to cause panic, which every time I see it I will show it for what it is
A very good question, as these firearms are not especially designed for pin point accuracy like a hunting firearm is, and they are made to looser tolerances than a sporting firearm so that they will work under conditions that might see a sporting firearm fail, but which is the reason for the loss of pin point accuracy. And last but not least the ammunition that is designed for these things, is specifically designed for wounding, although obviously it will be effective in causing death. This is because, in battle, a dead man can either be buried by one or left for pick up later, but a wounded man will take four other men off the field of battle getting the wounded one to safety. Assault rifles are just an advancement on a modern sling shot in that they fire faster and with much the same degree of accuracy, but with less skill required for the use of the rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
I'm not in favour of these blanket bans, or banning in general, as I've seen that as a failure since it hasn't stopped gun crime in this country. And a system of licencing is only worthwhile if it requires some testing of the user and is issued for the user and not the firearm. Gun control doesn't really succeed if you have a human mind that is willing to commit a crime. Regardless of what the crime is.
Makes zero differance whatsoever what weopen was used, but I can assure you it was not .45/70 sharps.glen will will set us all straight on this subject post haste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Sir, I take issue with you for not even waiting for the blood to dry from this horror, to start flinging mud at your fellow countrymen. I doubt highly, by reading your posts from today, that you are, or ever were a member of the NRA. And I doubt also that you believe in God, who as you have put it, "forsaken" America. I'm not sorry for this rant, I cant let crap like this slide.
Yep as soon as the Facts come out, any question you don't understand just ask and I will explain that most of the drivel you posted is not correct it is just Liberal tag lines spoon fed to you.. ie: Never let a good tragedy go to waste right ???Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
I seriously doubt your NRA background too
I'm broken hearted about this tragic event. I'm sure all of us grieve and our hearts go out to those who lost loved ones. At the same time arguing that confiscating weapons from law abiding citizens is not the answer.
Hero instructor fought son in Wyoming college bow-and-arrow murder-suicide, police say | Fox News
Let's keep this civil and avoid any personal stuff or this thread will be shut down.
yes sir.i will sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Good idea since the blood hasn't yet dried and the bodies yet been burried and somebody went straight to Gun ControlQuote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
Today is one of Mourning. I will not make political posts or touch on the gun control issue. People should be ashamed for using this tragic event to fuel their debates and troll habits. Have some couth and respect the fact that 20 families lost their babies to a maniac. Thats 20 families that didnt get to say "I love you so much, your so beautiful, good bye". These people will not be consoled by your anger driven rants. Be peaceful today, be respectful today, and reflect on how you live your life and the impact you are making on others. See you all tomorrow.
I have been an avid long time NRA member my entire adult life.
I have firearms and they are well locked up when not in use, last use was a very stuborn and nasty Oposum in the one shedd that went after SWMBO and now wont' bother any one ANY more.
I don't blame the gun, I know the perpitrator was wholy and totally off his nut. For whatevery reason. myheart Bleads for the Dead and hurt and the mentaly scared. My prayers go out to all who were pained by this tragedy.
Gun control does not mean what most people thinks it means, but people who won't vote in money for decent mental health service's and family who know of members of their clan who own firearms and KNOW they should not be allowed and don't make that short trip to the sheriffs office to talk it over with the people who could help prevent such tragedy's.
Somtimes common sense should previal.
Sir, I thank you for being a voice of reason and compassion. :chapeauQuote:
Originally Posted by alb1981
What the hey, getting all twisted out of shape over gun control makes finding the root cause of why we now have people who think these actions can be done difficult. The accessibility of firearms to these people is just a means to an end, a contributing factor if you will. Mass murders have been done by other means as well. Gun control is an easy fix, just pass more legislation and the problem is cured. I am not saying access to firearms is not a part of solving the problem but it sure blinds people to other equally important, possibly more important, factors that contribute to creating these tragedies. No media on our side of the border are talking anything but gun control and that is pretty scary but I guess it is in vogue and politically acceptable. Get a grip there are more facets to this problem than solely gun control.
Bob
What can happen even with stringent gun control;
2011 Norway attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gun politics in Norway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jimmy. One doesn't even need a gun to kill a lot of innocent lives. People strap bombs to their bodies all the time.
Even if they out law guns it won't keep criminals from obtaining them, just law abiding citizens. Just like alcohol during the prohibition or drug use today. Just because it is illegal doesn't make it unobtainable making law abiding citizens unable to protect themselves from these lunatics. If teachers were able to carry many more lives would have been saved
The real question yet to be answered here isn't about gun control; rather why this happened in a room full of elementary school kids. What made the shooter target these children in cold blood?
The salient point here is there is no shortage of mentally unbalanced people out there who have a gripe with the world and their answer is to go out in a blaze of glory. If you really want to blame something it's not the guns, really, it's the internet. it gives these wackos the opportunity to meet and discuss and research and helps them immensely. The problem is they are competing with each other so they will be remembered as the worst of the worst and this kind of thing will only escalate in the future I am so sorry to say.
I've said this many times, eventually there will be an incident so horrific as to make this look like a walk in the park and then public opinion will change and all the money of the NRA and second amendment supporters will mean nothing. Politicians will fall over themselves to go in the opposite and drastic direction. That day will come.
That is my point exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCakeDC
Well, we are getting somewhere now when looking at what is different today then when I was growing up, the internet. Yea, we always had whack jobs walking around but the support system the internet provides widens the scope and possibilities for their actions. Unfortunately I think you are right, it will only get worse. Lets just hope when the politicians are finally forced into taking action it is not a myopic one dwelling solely on one facet of the problem. Yea I know, reality bites and politicians being politicians favour the easy myopic solutions.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Bob
Know is the time.the the wheels will be put in motion shortley I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
it is a horrible ordeal ,and i couldn't imagine the loss of one of my children in any way shape or form , who all of them are in elementary school ages !! the idea of a gun control even mentioned at this time is crazy( or any other shooting right after it happens ) but it is always the first thing to be brought up in any shooting case !! in any situation where a gun is used for the bad the first thing we all hear about is that " the bad " no one ever hears about the good or how someone may have protected there (FAMILY) from an intruder ,you will never hear about that ...and "ASSULT WEAPON " was a term given to a firearm that has certain characteristics to it , non of which make the gun any more deadly then itself in a non assult weapon form so that term is garbage .......
more guns / less guns isnt the answer , i dont have any answers , but my theory on this does have alot to do with lack of parenting or the ability to parent like back in the day and communication in society ect .. im one of the only parents who attend my childrens sports practices !! my parents came to every event ive ever had , now days both parents have to work or do work , kids do whatever they want and parents have no clue what there doing or who there doing it with , i am by far not the parent of the year( and i dont mean all todays parents in my rant ) and i understand some parents cant be there all the time but i try to be as much in my children's lives as i can be and i wanna know everything i can about them
family morals , ethics , and modern day society has changed from the the way it was in the past and thats prob why in the past stuff like this wasnt goin on or mayb it was but it wasnt on the news or internet for a week so others can see what happened and go hhhmmm maybe ill do that !! i think the media has just as much to do with repeat cases as anything but bottom line is no matter what happens things of this nature are gonna continue and i fear prob get worse as time goes on .. i kinda make this argument on the media because when i went to pick my child up today my town had police stationed at the entrance to both my childrens schools today ! why ?? because they must have thought someone else may do the same , but they have no concern any other day !! place security in the schools , that would detour more then a law against you or i having a gun !!!!
as far as the CT shootings , last i heard the shooter argued with the principal , then went to his mothers classroom where most of the children were killed as well as his mother and used a sig sauer & glock ( hand guns ) and had the rifle in the trunk of his car and all firearms were registered to his mother , so with out facts id assume mayb this guy has a record where he couldnt purchase his own guns mayb ? but again i just assume ( ya i know kinda hypercritical of me ) but if anything this day should have made us all appreciate our loved ones a little more and realize that we never know what can happen at any given moment and at any time , we cant control what other people are gonna do but we can control the idea of letting our loved ones know just how much we do love them !!!thats kinda my $.02 right now , very sad and cant help thinking about if it happened in my kids school at this point
its a damn shame but in a guns defence,millions of gun owners killed no one today i can leave a loaded ar15 or whatever on a table all year long and i pormiss you it will not jump off that table and start killing people. guns are just a tool to do the killing with if sickos will always have a gun reguardless of laws so i feel we need better mental health care in this country.
Well Raum said "never let a good crisis go to waste" I see Doom Bloomberg jumped on the wagon quick after this one. As did some folks here. That is cowardly and divisive. I mourn for the children and their families. It breaks my heart. I have 3 kids 5, 7, and 10. Could've been my own kids (well not really as we homeschool them). The latest news I heard was he had 2 9MM handguns. No mentions of a .223 rifle/carbine. Next thing the news will report is he is a Veteran or Tea Party member. The crooked media did that with the Gabby Giffords shooter and the Colorado theater shooter. Some folks need to put the Koolaid down. This has nothing to do with guns as some folks drive a car full of TNT into day care centers or slash people up with knives (like what happened in China TODAY) This kid was a nut. Plain and simple. Like a rabid dog he was sick. It has everything to do with people's lack of respect for life and their fellow man. We have become numb to compassion and love for our fellow man. Cryin' shame.
Glen will have all the answeres tomorrow,all the balistics,the entire maryann,we all need to wait for the final word,let us pray for the fallen and the familys that are Mourning the dead.
I know nothing about this...but I cannot say this behavior is new.
I also cannot say that guns have much to do with it other than they are an easy tool for these terrible acts.
If anyone wants to study up...I used to live in Bath, Michigan. It was the home of the largest terrorist attack on US soil until the Oaklahoma city bombing. As luck would have it, my sister was present in Oak city as a hospital worker down the street from ground zero.
These things are terrible, but it is not new now is it the fault of the tools used. I have no solutions, just observations.
I do believe that this world is changing and some of the fallout is people that have some very anti-social behavior. It is sad sad sad !
For anyone interested...this story from Bath is truly horrific...and old.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster