Assault weopen carnage agian?

I can understand the viewpoints of those that have not been born in the US and lived in the US for as long as number of us have. I'm 60 years old.

In my 60 years, I have witnessed and been a participant in one of WAY too many "police actions"/wars. Watched the government funded destruction of the family and its values that were instilled in young people until the welfare programs were fully instituted. Approximately half of this country is on the "dole" and the other half is busting their ass to try to support it. Our Representative Democracy has been subverted into a democracy and the have nots have figured out how to vote themselves a raise.

The mess we are seeing in this society is a direct result of the nanny state.

One aspect of this discussion that fascinates me is the fact that none of us who have spoken in defense of our constitutionally guaranteed liberties have decried that those countries that limit or deny firearms to their subjects should have to change their laws to match ours. IF you do not desire to own a firearm, I have no problem with that. I'll be the last one to tell you to get one.

What was done yesterday was absolutely an disgusting and tragic act of an unstable young man. Perhaps the truly guilty party of the occurrence was the first one killed. I have seen no mention of a father in anything I've read. Maybe we should blame the mother for creating and fostering a monster. That's a big stretch and I really don't mean that but if we want to point fingers let's point fingers and try to shove blame ANYWHERE other than where it belongs. Isn't that the politically correct thing to do nowadays?

Yesterday's act pales in comparison to what is happening to children in the middle east and Africa. There are NUMEROUS shining examples of governments gone wild and killing their subjects. I have yet to hear any of the bleeding hearts decrying those deplorable situations. What's up with that? Our beloved leader is fighting Al Queda on one front and supporting them on another. The present administration is governing by executive order and the house and the senate are letting him. Like I said this government is broke ( in more ways than one definition of that word).


At this moment, it is still a constitutionally guaranteed right for any American citizen to legally posses a firearm provided they meet the criteria for such ownership.
I would suggest that you take a few minutes and look at the numbers shown at this less than right wing website.
By the numbers: Guns in America - CNN.com

I think that illustrates the will of the people it does NOT illustrate the desire of the left turned media or the present administration.

Edit: laws have nothing to do with this. Morals, ethics, and upbringing have everything to do with it.

You can't idiot proof the world, you can however parent properly and learn to spot the warning signs of mental instability. Beyond that, know when to act on those signs, even when it's your own child.

With so many problems that contribute to the final outcome of yesterday's tragedy both sides get bogged down on only one of the numerous problems. Until both sides can get past the fixation on guns you ain't gonna get anywhere near reducing these incidences. Do you really want to attempt to stop the continuous cycle of grieving over these tragedies or just keep on arguing your pet peeve/solution solely centered on guns? There is so much more going on than that one point.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

With so many problems that contribute to the final outcome of yesterday's tragedy both sides get bogged down on only one of the numerous problems. Until both sides can get past the fixation on guns you ain't gonna get anywhere near reducing these incidences. Do you really want to attempt to stop the continuous cycle of grieving over these tragedies or just keep on arguing your pet peeve/solution solely centered on guns? There is so much more going on than that one point.

Bob

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One half mile from where I live two guys went into a restaurant right before closing and murdered three women who worked there for $120.00 that was in the cash register. They were caught because one of the two was so pleased with himself that he bragged to a friend about it. His friend apparently didn't think it was anything to be proud of and turned him in.

A little less than one half mile from where I live two guys went into a convenience store and , though the two clerks were completely cooperative with them, the security camera shows them killing them execution style. They were also caught doing a drive by gang related shooting and the murder weapon was determined to be the same. Unfortunately none of these perpetrators got the death penalty they so richly deserve.

Point being, I carry a gun to protect myself. I would give the guns up if I didn't live in the wild west, figuratively speaking. We aren't all playing with the same deck of cards and you people that may live in a more civilized environment may not understand the pressures of living in or close by 'the hood.'

Are incidents of this kind an acceptable trade off for maintaining this particular civil right.

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Originally Posted by Baxxer

I've been reading this thread and both sides have put up some good arguments but I'd like to chime in with my outsider point of view.

I live in a country with strict gun laws and I think it's crazy that automatic weapons and weapons in general are so relatively easy to obtain in the states.

The law here says that you can only get a firearm if you've got a legitimate use for it, so most weapons here are for hunting and competitive target practice.
Collectors have to deactivate their guns.
Even if you fit this criteria, it's still not easy to get a license.

Fully automatic rifles are overkill for hunting and they're not the best suited for target shooting(even though it'd be fun), so they are very rare outside police and military beacause it's only in extreme special circumstances that a civilian can get one.

Not surprisingly we don't have a lot of gun violence here.


The second amendment was written during a very different era, right after the american revolution and I personally fail to see how it's relevant to modern USA.

The argument that criminals will always get guns is a half true one if you ask me.
If you limit the availability of guns and heavily regulate who can have them with strict rules about safekeeping and use, it will get harder for criminals to get them(it's hard to steal a gun from someone who keeps it locked up in a gun-safe) and I sure as hell don't think you should make it easier for them.

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It helps to understand that the Declaration of Independence was written by the people and issued to the current government.
The Bill of Rights are rights given to all men by the Creator.
These are not freedoms the government lets us have because they are nice and love us.
The Bill of Rights is a list of things the government is not allowed to touch, but so many people have traded their liberties for security, that now we are enjoying neither.

The first amendment has no teeth without the second amendment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

One half mile from where I live two guys went into a restaurant right before closing and murdered three women who worked there for $120.00 that was in the cash register. They were caught because one of the two was so pleased with himself that he bragged to a friend about it. His friend apparently didn't think it was anything to be proud of and turned him in.

A little less than one half mile from where I live two guys went into a convenience store and , though the two clerks were completely cooperative with them, the security camera shows them killing them execution style. They were also caught doing a drive by gang related shooting and the murder weapon was determined to be the same. Unfortunately none of these perpetrators got the death penalty they so richly deserve.

Point being, I carry a gun to protect myself. I would give the guns up if I didn't live in the wild west, figuratively speaking. We aren't all playing with the same deck of cards and you people that may live in a more civilized environment may not understand the pressures of living in or close by 'the hood.'

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I am not suggesting anything about guns other than there are more issues involved than guns alone. Your examples clearly point that out. I do not want to live in a society where I feel it is necessary for my own safety to be armed while I go out. OTH, if I felt that was necessary I most certainly would be carrying. If you want to go from feeling it is necessary to not feeling it is necessary to be constantly armed you have to look past the issue of guns. The only alternative is keep the status quo and accept the consequences of what is happening now as the price you pay for doing nothing.

Bob

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Originally Posted by Jeltz

Are incidents of this kind an acceptable trade off for maintaining this particular civil right.

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NOTHING that can be legislated will stop a determined individual from accomplishing whatever he/she/they decide they want to do. The fact is that EVERYTHING that young man did yesterday was illegal.

So now the argument is "let's make it harder" for them to accomplish their chosen task? Why not take away cars from everyone because a few people drive drunk? What's the difference? The last numbers I saw for Texas stated that over 2.700 people have been killed THIS YEAR! I'd say that is a very big problem. That is more than have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001, yet I see no outcry about traffic deaths.

If you'll look aside from the current issue, maybe you can understand that our Bill of Rights was written to protect the citizens from an oppressive government the likes of which the colonies had just finished a war to break away from and that you are currently living under the government ( I realize that England's government is not the same as it was then but is a direct result of what it was then) that brought about our Bill of Rights.

Perhaps you like having cameras watching your every move and paying taxes to support such entities. Maybe you don't or maybe you're so accustomed to it that it isn't an issue to you. Doesn't matter to me. I do NOT look forward to that kind of intrusive BS in my life.

I'm not trying to "poke back" nor start a disagreement. The fact is that the US has been going down a different path until fairly recently when SOMEBODY decided we needed to hard turn left.

Personally, I'd rather be responsible for myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wullie

So now the argument is "let's make it harder" for them to accomplish their chosen task? Why not take away cars from everyone because a few people drive drunk? What's the difference? The last numbers I saw for Texas stated that over 2.700 people have been killed THIS YEAR! I'd say that is a very big problem. That is more than have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001, yet I see no outcry about traffic deaths.




I'm not trying to "poke back" nor start a disagreement. The fact is that the US has been going down a different path until fairly recently when SOMEBODY decided we needed to hard turn left.

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Wullie - You should know by the amount of likes I give you lol, that I love 99% of the things you say so take this for what it is - a mere difference of opinion.

The part of your statement I highlighted I have a real problem with. I find it flawed logic. Comparing motor vehicles and guns just can't be done. In my opinion. Motor vehicles provide an economic good that pales any kind of economic good the sales of arms provides to society. Motor vehicles provide a utility that serves all Americans. Weapons can't claim that.

An automobile's externalitys... those things that are bad when used incorrectly, are unfortunate side effects. A guns "externalitys" are its purpose - and that is too kill.

A vehicle purpose is not to kill - a guns is. And that's all fine but we get a ton of good out of cars as a society. A guns is questionable.


As for the "SOMEBODY" who decided to turn left... yup! That would be over 50% of Americans.

Just saying...

The only "Assault Weapon" that created any carnage was a sick human.

David, I agree, Willie did not need to go to the Car analogy, as last I checked driving is a "Privilege" in the US..
Owning a gun is a "Right"

When you start trying to take away a Right then things change..


Be very very careful when you ask for a basic Right to be changed, especially when it was so important that it is the 2nd one listed...

All that is just Rhetoric really though David...

Now for the rest of you

What I find reprehensible in fact down right deplorable is that all of the Gun Grabbing Left climbs right on up using the dead bloody bodies of the victims as their soap box, to advance their anti-gun message, that is truely sick.. Everyone of you that jumped on the soap box built on 20 dead children should hang your head in shame... Chew on that a bit, you all waited for another massacre to speak, Those of us that are shooters have had multiple threads going on this Forum for years.. The only time we hear from the left is when you use death to advance your agenda :(

Perhaps that is because, your arguments don't hold water with Stats or Facts so unless you can use dead bodies to help, you actually make no sense... You can't win this arguement using logic, we all know that, the numbers disprove it everytime, so only emotion can further your cause...




(see I can strike low blows too)


Honestly the only really good remark I have seen in this thread that hasn't been said over and over is the one from Furcifer asking why isn't there Security at every school, such a simple deterent...
If I were a Parent that would be my question

Which reminds me "Wow am I glad I never had Kids" I would be so worried about what they will be facing in the future..

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Wullie - You should know by the amount of likes I give you lol, that I love 99% of the things you say so take this for what it is - a mere difference of opinion.

The part of your statement I highlighted I have a real problem with. I find it flawed logic. Comparing motor vehicles and guns just can't be done. In my opinion. Motor vehicles provide an economic good that pales any kind of economic good the sales of arms provides to society. Motor vehicles provide a utility that serves all Americans. Weapons can't claim that.

An automobile's externalitys... those things that are bad when used incorrectly, are unfortunate side effects. A guns "externalitys" are its purpose - and that is too kill.

A vehicle purpose is not to kill - a guns is. And that's all fine but we get a ton of good out of cars as a society. A guns is questionable.


As for the "SOMEBODY" who decided to turn left... yup! That would be over 50% of Americans.

Just saying...

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David, I respect and enjoy your input as well.

I'm kind of on the same page with EXCEPT a gun's purpose is not strictly to kill. I have used guns in the past to protect myself without firing a shot. I was fully prepared to but it wan't necessary as the offending persons saw it my way. I own and have owned a bunch of rifles and pistols that were made for nothing more than launching a projectile at a piece of paper. They would be very unwieldy and pretty much useless as "killing" devices. I can also say that with more guns in the hands of private citizens than we have people in this country that the actual rate of firearm mortality is extremely low. We can nit pick that to death and still not get anywhere. All I'm trying to illustrate is the knee jerk reaction to GUNS when something deplorable like this latest incident happens and the current administration's predictable use of this to get what they've wanted for along time, that being disarmament of the populace.

What it boils down to in my mind is that part of the country wants me to give up something they don't have or care about. The other part that scares me even worse is the fact that so far, collectively the private citizens, out number and out gun the current government. With all the new control regulations being implemented nationwide, ( TSA, VYPR check points on our roadways, use of the military in violation of the now defunct Posse commitatus act by the NDAA, willful destruction of our dollar, the army preparing for massive civil unrest etc etc) there may come a time when those that cried wolf will scream for help. I pray every night that will never happen.

Think about this. The country is basically only three days away from anarchy. A strong solar flare could take down the grid for years. Grocery stores have approximately three days of food at any point in time. Imagine this country with no electricity for a couple of weeks. It won't be fun nor will it be pretty.

So let's give up our stuff. Uncle Sam will be there, just like they were for New Orleans and New York.

I'll pass.

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing."

- Adolf Hitler

It's kind of weird because I am VERY pro-gun. Moreover, I am with Glen - it's an American's right, not a privilege.

It's scale that I kind of have a problem with. Maybe efficiency would be a better term.

If you look at stats it's something between 2 to 3 shots when there is an altercation. Anyone who has shot, also knows that after that, hiding or running is probably a better solution lol! But I don't want to get too bogged down with what-if scenario's that do nothing but foster a bunch of Rambo want to be's day dreams of zombie... Moreover, I don't buy into needing these type of weapons to keep the government in order. In today's America, only a military force can do that.

I think 99% of the American public would be well served with a six gun, a shotgun, and a good bolt action/lever-gun. I know I would be fine with that - though I love my semi's and would miss them.

I don't understand the need for weapons designed to kill on mass, or used to provide a wall of lead that is 90% inefficient in the public forum. But that's just me and take that for what it is... a dude who's lived in one of the most violent society's in the western hemisphere - Kingston Jamaica.

What a dump!! I hope America never becomes like that!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by earcutter

It's kind of weird because I am VERY pro-gun. Moreover, I am with Glen - it's an American's right, not a privilege.

It's scale that I kind of have a problem with. Maybe efficiency would be a better term.

If you look at stats it's something between 2 to 3 shots when there is an altercation. Anyone who has shot, also knows that after that, hiding or running is probably a better solution lol! But I don't want to get too bogged down with what-if scenario's that do nothing but foster a bunch of Rambo want to be's day dreams of zombie... Moreover, I don't buy into needing these type of weapons to keep the government in order. In today's America, only a military force can do that.

I think 99% of the American public would be well served with a six gun, a shotgun, and a good bolt action/lever-gun. I know I would be fine with that - though I love my semi's and would miss them.

I don't understand the need for weapons designed to kill on mass, or used to provide a wall of lead that is 90% inefficient in the public forum. But that's just me and take that for what it is... a dude who's lived in one of the most violent society's in the western hemisphere - Kingston Jamaica.

What a dump!! I hope America never becomes like that!

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Just how would you classify the individuals in Afghanistan that have managed defeat one super power and hold off another for thirty or forty years?

The facts are out, the guy used two pistols. The so called assault rifle was left in his murdered mom's stolen car. I'm sure that will continue to be irrelevant to the upcoming assault on our rights.

I'm done with this thread. I've got a freshly honed by MAGPIE, Challenge razor that needs a test drive and the weather outside is conducive to doing something besides wasting my energy with this.

Thanks to everyone for keeping it civil.

I shall continue to be a bitter clinger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by earcutter

A vehicle purpose is not to kill - a guns is. And that's all fine but we get a ton of good out of cars as a society.

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Vehicles are not purposed to kill, yet they do, and that is acceptable as long society benefits from vehicles.

I don't see any reason not to apply that same logic to guns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wullie

Just how would you classify the individuals in Afghanistan that have managed defeat one super power and hold off another for thirty or forty years?

American support & stinger missiles.

The facts are out, the guy used two pistols. The so called assault rifle was left in his murdered mom's stolen car. I'm sure that will continue to be irrelevant to the upcoming assault on our rights.

Two "semi auto" pistols - I have owned both. Heck, the Glock I owned had a 30 round clip! I could put tons of lead down in seconds with those two pistols.

I'm done with this thread. I've got a freshly honed by MAGPIE, Challenge razor that needs a test drive and the weather outside is conducive to doing something besides wasting my energy with this.

:)

Thanks to everyone for keeping it civil.

I shall continue to be a bitter clinger.

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LOL! I am sorry Wullie - I don't think you should ever stop feeling as you do - seriously! It's your right and I respect how you feel towards it. I am merely pointing out another alternative - but yeah, it's a slippery slope and in today's climate of all or nothing... It becomes increasingly hard to have discussions about such things. I find that heart breaking.

I just want to point out another fact of sorts that many may not have thought through.

The NRA, where I live anyway, has done a fantastic job of ensuring its numbers. If you want to shoot at a range here, you have to enroll in the NRA - why? Because they are the only one's who are willing to provide decent insurance rates to the ranges I visit.

Hence, the NRA are awesome BUT, don't necessarily speak to what all are feeling.

Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by honedright

Vehicles are not purposed to kill, yet they do, and that is acceptable as long society benefits from vehicles.

I don't see any reason not to apply that same logic to guns.

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Ok think of it this way.

Do you honestly think America would fall apart if all guns were removed from society?

Now were you take every motor vehicle out... in today's world, it would see us in the dark ages.

Not trying to be rude - just think about it.

Here is another simple solution that hardly ever gets air play, that I as a RKBA supporter would have Zero issues with..

1. Any Gun not in possesion of the owner must be locked up ie: some sort of Safe/Cabinet would be a law (these must be made in the US :p)
2. A "Gun Owner" license, much the same as a drivers license in fact might just be a Stamp on the drivers license like a MC stamp. that is a MINOR cost (monies go to School security) that says I can own a gun legally ie: answer all the BATF form questions... this must be re-newed periodically much like a driver's license.. This would also tie in with Health Care records to stop the "Mental Disorder" problems that seems to be a bigger issue then the weapons right now.
3. You must have had some sort of Firearm safety course, we already do this for hunters (in most states) so it is no big deal.

Simple easy solutions to many problems

I have been affected by gun in the past and present at the same time, means something never go away, never change or can be forgotten.

I have two questions to both of the sides:

1. "Would you give up your "right" to save this childrens lifes"?
2. "If you know your rights nd believe and you stand by them do you think you would change your mind if you will be ask to go to each of this families family and annouce death of your loveded child, parent, father... ?. Will this bring you mor numbnes or pain?"

Difficult questions, but let`s just think about it. I do not expect answers.

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Ok think of it this way.

Do you honestly think America would fall apart if all guns were removed from society?

Now were you take every motor vehicle out... in today's world, it would see us in the dark ages.

Not trying to be rude - just think about it.

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I think you are presenting a false dichotomy.

Are either guns, or vehicles, the sole factors holding America together? I doubt it. So your question is misleading, but not rude.

The purpose of a vehicle, generally, is to transport someone, or something, from point A to point B.

And the purpose of a gun is to ignite a measured charge and send a projectile rapidly down and out of a barrel.

How those objectives are carried out, and the resulting consequences of any abuse or misjudgement, is completely up to, and is the responsibility of, the person controlling either device. That's my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by honedright

I think you are presenting a false dichotomy.

Are either guns, or vehicles, the sole factors holding America together? I doubt it. So your question is misleading, but not rude.

The purpose of a vehicle, generally, is to transport someone, or something, from point A to point B.

And the purpose of a gun is to ignite a measured charge and send a projectile rapidly down and out of a barrel.

How those objectives are carried out, and the resulting consequences of any abuse or misjudgement, is completely up to, and is the responsibility of, the person controlling either device. That's my opinion.

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LOL - as my wife always says, "it's all about definition."

As a dude who study's business - I would argue that yes, the purpose of a vehicle is to "transport someone, or something, from point A to point B." And that it is one of the biggest factors that is "holding America together" considering how we value capitalism, trade, and commerce.

It's all about definition but yeah, I would say that were you to take away guns we would be ok - take away vehicles, your world would be rocked!

EDIT
I mean seriously? How would you get your food? Your electricity, your ammo?

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Originally Posted by earcutter

LOL - as my wife always says, "it's all about definition."

As a dude who study's business - I would argue that yes, the purpose of a vehicle is to "transport someone, or something, from point A to point B." And that it is one of the biggest factors that is "holding America together" considering how we value capitalism, trade, and commerce.

It's all about definition but yeah, I would say that were you to take away guns we would be ok - take away vehicles, your world would be rocked!

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Depends on your definition of "Ok" and whether or not OK is good enough. OK?

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Originally Posted by honedright

Depends on your definition of "Ok" and whether or not OK is good enough.

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Bahahahahaaha!

Ok but think of this - If America took away all vehicles and the rest of the world didn't... You will not be speaking english for long :).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Bahahahahaaha!

Ok but think of this - If America took away all vehicles and the rest of the world didn't... You will not be speaking english for long :).

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That's only if you take away all of the guns too. ;)

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Originally Posted by honedright

That's only if you take away all of the guns too. ;)

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Yeah, horse-drawn artillery moves so fast to where it's needed. :rofl2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

20 dead young children,7 adults by a nutcase back east with a semi .223 today.
This country needs some manner of gun control.As a lifelong NRA Member,I am not continueing my membership as of today.
The 2nd ammendment advocates are a bunch of wacko nut cases IMO.
I just read this on the net and am actually brought to tears.
God has foresakin this once great country.Rant over:(

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I should steer clear of this topic, BUT I just can't... This will probably be my only post so here it is...

25 years of being in LE/Security/Military and working overseas... It's not the guns, it's the PEOPLE!

"WE" as in society have allowed people to do as they wish without penalties and it has only gotten worse... Arm all law abiding people and see what happens next...

If one teacher, staff member or parent that was there was CCW what would have been the out come?

I shed a tear for the lost...

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Originally Posted by honedright

That's only if you take away all of the guns too. ;)

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TAKE AWAY ALL THE GUNS TOO!!!

Attachment 115059

You couldn't get enough in your wheelbarrow to stop say... the Chinese lol!! :)

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Originally Posted by proximus26

Difficult questions, but let`s just think about it.

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Not difficult at all, not one bit...

No, I would not give up my rights, nor would I ever need to explain another "person's" actions, why would I...
(person is in quotes as anybody that would shoot innocent children/people is highly questionable as to belonging to the human race)

Nor do I believe that your questions have any bearing on the topic...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Here is another simple solution that hardly ever gets air play, that I as a RKBA supporter would have Zero issues with..

1. Any Gun not in possesion of the owner must be locked up ie: some sort of Safe/Cabinet would be a law (these must be made in the US :p)
2. A "Gun Owner" license, much the same as a drivers license in fact might just be a Stamp on the drivers license like a MC stamp. that is a MINOR cost (monies go to School security) that says I can own a gun legally ie: answer all the BATF form questions... this must be re-newed periodically much like a driver's license.. This would also tie in with Health Care records to stop the "Mental Disorder" problems that seems to be a bigger issue then the weapons right now.
3. You must have had some sort of Firearm safety course, we already do this for hunters (in most states) so it is no big deal.

Simple easy solutions to many problems

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Yea, that is all part of our current gun laws but it does not stop what happens here in major centers. As a gun owner I too don't mind putting up with that but in the end there will always be criminal use of guns. Same reason as bans won't work either. The same knuckleheads here don't understand that either. We have a sick society.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

We have a sick society.

Bob

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Yeah and there is the true problem, but I think I would have voiced it as "We have too many Sickos in our Society"

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Ok think of it this way.

Do you honestly think America would fall apart if all guns were removed from society?

Now were you take every motor vehicle out... in today's world, it would see us in the dark ages.

Not trying to be rude - just think about it.

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I do.
When guns are banned, only those that comply will be unarmed.
Police, military, and bad guys will still be armed. At that point could you differentiate between the three?
I cite Mexico as a glaring example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Here is another simple solution that hardly ever gets air play, that I as a RKBA supporter would have Zero issues with..

1. Any Gun not in possesion of the owner must be locked up ie: some sort of Safe/Cabinet would be a law (these must be made in the US :p)
2. A "Gun Owner" license, much the same as a drivers license in fact might just be a Stamp on the drivers license like a MC stamp. that is a MINOR cost (monies go to School security) that says I can own a gun legally ie: answer all the BATF form questions... this must be re-newed periodically much like a driver's license.. This would also tie in with Health Care records to stop the "Mental Disorder" problems that seems to be a bigger issue then the weapons right now.
3. You must have had some sort of Firearm safety course, we already do this for hunters (in most states) so it is no big deal.

Simple easy solutions to many problems

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Those are common sense solutions, but a license only gives you the privilege to do something the government has deemed to be otherwise illegal without.

Rights and privileges are different creatures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scap99

Those are common sense solutions, but a license only gives you the privilege to do something the government has deemed to be otherwise illegal without.

Rights and privileges are different creatures.

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Read carefully, I am not infinging on a right at all with this, I am simply qualifing each person within the laws that are already in effect..

ie: as a felon you have no right to own a weapon so you have no stamp

Quote:

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Bahahahahaaha!

Ok but think of this - If America took away all vehicles and the rest of the world didn't... You will not be speaking english for long :).

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Take away the guns and it's an even shorter period of time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Read carefully, I am not infinging on a right at all with this, I am simply qualifing the laws that are already in effect..

ie: as a felon you have no right to own a weapon so you have no stamp

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It's a slippery slope. And we already know we can't trust DC.

The easiest way to stop school shootings is to just close the schools.
We'd get a huge tax savings that way too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scap99

I do.
When guns are banned, only those that comply will be unarmed.
Police, military, and bad guys will still be armed. At that point could you differentiate between the three?
I cite Mexico as a glaring example.

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Ok just to reiterate - I do believe in American's right to own firearms - but am not convinced that semi auto ownership is needed.

That said:

This is a really poor example! Mexico is a great example of what happens when an impoverished nation takes to corruption and the rule of law is completely done away with by the lure of corrupt bribes and pay offs!

If every Mexican citizen was issued a handgun and a long gun... semi or not... It wouldn't make one lick of difference! Not one! There would just be more people killing each other.

Until they get some rule of law and their military in check NOTHING will change.

If one more person tells me that were the American military to become corrupted and fueled by greed vs. love of country - that an armed populous could stop them, I think I'll puke laughing!

The only thing you could do with your gun is take your own life and stop the machine!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scap99

It's a slippery slope. And we already know we can't trust DC.

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I cannot argue that point :(

The worst thing you ever want to hear

"We are from the Government and we are here to Help"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Yeah and there is the true problem, but I think I would have voiced it as "We have too many Sickos in our Society"

:)

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No, I'll stick with the "we have a sick society". The sickos come from somewhere and if we don't breed them directly we allow the circumstances to exist which allow these sickos to germinate into a problem. It is usually a decade or two, sometimes more, between birth and the ultimate tragedy.

Bob