Thread: Potential Ban/Brady Bill part deux?

Originally Posted by Magpie

I dont forget a thing. I say as little as possible, so it wont degrade into anything other than a statement. Those who do not know the Warsaw Ghetto uprisings will hopefully be inspired to learn.
They cant forget what they never knew. My telling them is just another talking head. Their own reading of history is likely far more effective and believable than just another post by me on the internet

That is what i meant with my statement. The uprising ended tragically, causing probably bigger death toll that wouldn't have happened without. But that is 'what if'. I'm not trying to offend you or anyone.

You see, i have nothing against guns per se. I own some, and work with them. Practice at least twice a month and pass the annual test to stay on my job. I see no glory nor savior in them.
It's the willingness to see a gun as a solution. Not just 'bad guys' but 'good guys' as well. Of course society has to respond the thread it has to deal everyday, but what just makes people shoot each other.

We have a lot of guns in this country. Still gun related violence is almost zero. Not all cops carry guns.
How many guns you need until you can reduce the gun related violence/accidents into zero? The question lies not in the number of guns but willingness to use them.

Still the idea of people successfully rising against government is bs. People without external help against organized and disciplined army? Fairytail. In every civil war it's civilian against civilians. 'A good way to get rid of the neighbor you do not like'.
Probably our civil war was that much later that people at least learned that taking a gun against leaders, elected by a vote, would lead only into nation divided in two. Real killing starts after battles have been fought, just like in Warsaw uprising. It's the terror and revenge of those who won against those who were innocent.

Originally Posted by shooter74743

I can't imagine the kind of stuff like McVeigh used in the Oklahoma CIty tragedy.

About 6000 lbs of ANFO. Easy to get the stuff, easy to build.

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

A well regulated(disciplined) militia(army of the people), being necessary to a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The purpose is clearly defined, in order for the people to live freely they must be armed. It is neither mum nor ambiguous.

I see the Second as the Militia has the right to the arms. But that is the argument that has raged for years. No place in the Constitution does it indicate that the Supreme Court has the power of Judicial Review. If everything in the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence were taken literally, we would live in a different place.

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

From what I heard of the show in KC, dealers were damn near doubling their prices on some guns and did double the prices on ammo. One ammo dealer was asking a thousand dollars for a thousand rounds of .223

True Americans.....


What really, really bothers me is that NO ONE knew Christine was a Plymouth....NOT A CHEVELLE.......LOL

Originally Posted by Mvcrash

About 6000 lbs of ANFO. Easy to get the stuff, easy to build.

Tried buying any 32-0-0 fertilizer lately? They want your life history.

Originally Posted by Mvcrash

I see the Second as the Militia has the right to the arms. But that is the argument that has raged for years. No place in the Constitution does it indicate that the Supreme Court has the power of Judicial Review. If everything in the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence were taken literally, we would live in a different place.

Would that be an improvement?

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764. That was 230 years ago. -Thomas Jefferson



"The constitutions of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves;
that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property and freedom
of the press." Thomas Jefferson



"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson



The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.-Thomas Jefferson

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.-Thomas Jefferson

Originally Posted by Mvcrash

True Americans.....

Capitalists. LOL

Originally Posted by Mvcrash

What really, really bothers me is that NO ONE knew Christine was a Plymouth....NOT A CHEVELLE.......LOL

A '58 if I recall correctly.

Originally Posted by Sailor

Geographically Poland is middle European, although during the times of the iron curtain (only) it was considered politically eastern. During WW2 it still was still in the middle, divided by Soviet and Germany.

Anyways, beautiful and interesting country with a lot to see. Always nice to visit. Only 1 hr flight from here.

Don't forget their wonderful food !

Originally Posted by Mvcrash

What really, really bothers me is that NO ONE knew Christine was a Plymouth....NOT A CHEVELLE.......LOL

hey i was 4 when it came out and prob 7-8 when i saw it .. i made a guess it was a Chevelle ... they have one in the haunted house by me that as your walking down a dark hall the horn honks , headlights come on and it comes at you ...lol..

if they had NOT fought, they all would have been killed anyway. I for one, would rather die fighting with nothing more than a shovel in my hand against a machine gun, then to simply allow them to have me use the shovel to dig my own grave.

Originally Posted by Magpie

if they had NOT fought, they all would have been killed anyway. I for one, would rather die fighting with nothing more than a shovel in my hand against a machine gun, then to simply allow them to have me use the shovel to dig my own grave.

It's another thing to be brave and fight the ones that are doing you wrong than seeing 10 or more innocent of your side to get raped, tortured or dragged against a wall and shot. For the actions you made.
that is how civil uprising go. 'people' against tyrannic government, elected by a vote, lol. When civilians decide to take guns, they are capable of doing more horrific actions than disciplined army ever could.

That is what happened in our civil war and that is what happened in Warsaw also.
It is easy to speak for yourself, but in civil war where you had to fight against your wife/child/parents then the glory or bravery or even victory would be something not to consider.

Originally Posted by Sailor

That is what i meant with my statement. The uprising ended tragically, causing probably bigger death toll that wouldn't have happened without. But that is 'what if'. I'm not trying to offend you or anyone.

You see, i have nothing against guns per se. I own some, and work with them. Practice at least twice a month and pass the annual test to stay on my job. I see no glory nor savior in them.
It's the willingness to see a gun as a solution. Not just 'bad guys' but 'good guys' as well. Of course society has to respond the thread it has to deal everyday, but what just makes people shoot each other.

We have a lot of guns in this country. Still gun related violence is almost zero. Not all cops carry guns.
How many guns you need until you can reduce the gun related violence/accidents into zero? The question lies not in the number of guns but willingness to use them.

Still the idea of people successfully rising against government is bs. People without external help against organized and disciplined army? Fairytail. In every civil war it's civilian against civilians. 'A good way to get rid of the neighbor you do not like'.
Probably our civil war was that much later that people at least learned that taking a gun against leaders, elected by a vote, would lead only into nation divided in two. Real killing starts after battles have been fought, just like in Warsaw uprising. It's the terror and revenge of those who won against those who were innocent.

Part of the issue with low gun violence is that in a country of people that has existed for thousands of years the population make up is 99.5% Sweeds(sp) or Finn's. Much the same as Japan( with very low gun violence) in being nearly 100% of the original people. You have thousands of years to work for a low violence country. The US is a melting pot, less than 500 years from the beginning, with only a few thousand years more to reach a less violent state.

Originally Posted by redrover66

Part of the issue with low gun violence is that in a country of people that has existed for thousands of years the population make up is 99.5% Sweeds(sp) or Finn's. Much the same as Japan( with very low gun violence) in being nearly 100% of the original people. You have thousands of years to work for a low violence country. The US is a melting pot, less than 500 years from the beginning, with only a few thousand years more to reach a less violent state.

That's ridiculous.

Go to any country in Europe with homogeneous populations and you will find the folks there divide themselves up by regions or dialects or the way they speak or dress or a hundred other reasons and have very strong feelings about who is better than another. Humans need no real reason to kill each other. It's the one constant through history.

If I understand Sailor correctly, the murder and persecution of the people was the result of those who resisted being murdered and persecuted.

So, next time a captive of a sex slavery ring sees a chance to escape, they had best not do it, because those left behind might be punished for it.
Because after all, its so much better to not rise against overwhelming odds and superior forces, because, you know, somebody might get hurt.

Fear of reprisal.... what a sad reason to not do what is right. That is exactly the kind of thought process that despots have instilled in their subjects (because I cant use the word citizen and not twitch) to keep them in line, and to get them to become informants. Fourth Reich anyone?

Sailor, if this is NOT what you are saying I apologize, but it sure looks that way to me.