Thread: Joseph Elliot stub tail restoration

Originally Posted by Martin103

Just for the fun of it, I'm throwing my 2 cents in dating this razor. Look at the Greaves pictured below.

Somewhat similar I would say. Notice no Sheaf Works. Started by William Greaves in Sheffield in 1780. His sons joined the company in 1816 to make it William Greaves & Sons. The Sheaf Works building (factory) was started in 1823 and finished in 1826. I am absolutely positive that if this razor was manufactured in the famous Sheaf works, that it would be stamped as such.
That said I believed this razor dates range from 1815-1825.

for the Greaves yes, for the Elliot it would not be that early despite the similar style. Looks like the style was around for a couple decades at least, the Elliot could range from his start in (1833???) when granted freedom to who knows when right? He could have made the blade marked with his Mark from any point after his being granted freedom til he stopped producing in this particular style which we just don't have a definite when THAT would have been. Style can be an indicator, like in Dieselds' post above, but it can not be taken as an absolute without other knowns. I have several blades in this style including the Greaves from same era as the greaves, 1810s-1820s but majority of blades I've seen in this style date to the 1830s. When considering the dates for Joseph Elliot I would never use the Greaves as an example for dating the Elliot based on similar style. With Josephs dates, and my personal experience (which again can be a flawed area to extrapolate details from) seeing this style in vogue up thru at least the early part of Josephs date range, the 1830's thats where my seat of the pants, gut feeling will stay as to tentatively dating this blade, never absolute. Again, when did he produce the last blade in this style? Not a one of us could know that.

Totally off topic here, but this really really makes me want to create a custom razor that looks just like this, but says "I am BAD and Will Cut You!"

Originally Posted by silverloaf

for the Greaves yes, for the Elliot it would not be that early despite the similar style. Looks like the style was around for a couple decades at least, the Elliot could range from his start in (1833???) when granted freedom to who knows when right? He could have made the blade marked with his Mark from any point after his being granted freedom til he stopped producing in this particular style which we just don't have a definite when THAT would have been. Style can be an indicator, like in Dieselds' post above, but it can not be taken as an absolute without other knowns. I have several blades in this style including the Greaves from same era as the greaves, 1810s-1820s but majority of blades I've seen in this style date to the 1830s. When considering the dates for Joseph Elliot I would never use the Greaves as an example for dating the Elliot based on similar style. With Josephs dates, and my personal experience (which again can be a flawed area to extrapolate details from) seeing this style in vogue up thru at least the early part of Josephs date range, the 1830's thats where my seat of the pants, gut feeling will stay as to tentatively dating this blade, never absolute. Again, when did he produce the last blade in this style? Not a one of us could know that.

Can you please educate me as to how is it possible that Elliot company was founded in 1795 and his famous trademark granted in 1805?

Thanks for the discussion, guys, and all the informed guesses. It's cool to try to piece together clues as to dates, marks, designs, etc and get a rough idea of when it was made. Then, it's fascinating to think of all the time in between and who knows what that history is? The more info known about a razor, the better, but an element of unknown (or unknowable) can add something to the appeal as well.

Originally Posted by Martin103

Can you please educate me as to how is it possible that Elliot company was founded in 1795 and his famous trademark granted in 1805?

Oops! My apologies, I obviously spoke without any knowledge of the actual date the mark was granted and I made an assumption of which Joseph was granted freedom.

Originally Posted by silverloaf

Oops! My apologies, I obviously spoke without any knowledge of the actual date the mark was granted and I made an assumption of which Joseph was granted freedom.

With the history of Elliot razors, it's really, really easy to go astray. It's super murky.

Luckily, Geoffrey Tweedale chased down a living descendant to sort out some of the family tree... But still couldn't figure out where John Elliot comes into things.

Here's an uncommonly marked Elliot:



The hammer denotes that it was made with cast steel and a hammer rather than poured into a mold. The mark was the culmination of a run of folks passing off iron goods as steel. In 1818, George III issued a decree about markings.

Some cutlers seem to have continued using the hammer for a while (George Johnson), but most used it briefly then went back to the usual, which dates this razor to 1818-1824(?)ish.

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

The hammer denotes that it was made with cast steel and a hammer rather than poured into a mold. The mark was the culmination of a run of folks passing off iron goods as steel. In 1818, George III issued a decree about markings.

Some cutlers seem to have continued using the hammer for a while (George Johnson), but most used it briefly then went back to the usual, which dates this razor to 1818-1824(?)ish.

Thank you! I was trying to find out what the hammer mark meant in a thread couple of weeks ago. Now I know


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http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...ph-elliot.html

Originally Posted by silverloaf

for the Greaves yes, for the Elliot it would not be that early despite the similar style. Looks like the style was around for a couple decades at least, the Elliot could range from his start in (1833???) when granted freedom to who knows when right? He could have made the blade marked with his Mark from any point after his being granted freedom til he stopped producing in this particular style which we just don't have a definite when THAT would have been. Style can be an indicator, like in Dieselds' post above, but it can not be taken as an absolute without other knowns. I have several blades in this style including the Greaves from same era as the greaves, 1810s-1820s but majority of blades I've seen in this style date to the 1830s. When considering the dates for Joseph Elliot I would never use the Greaves as an example for dating the Elliot based on similar style. With Josephs dates, and my personal experience (which again can be a flawed area to extrapolate details from) seeing this style in vogue up thru at least the early part of Josephs date range, the 1830's thats where my seat of the pants, gut feeling will stay as to tentatively dating this blade, never absolute. Again, when did he produce the last blade in this style? Not a one of us could know that.

The Joseph Elliot granted his freedom in 1835 was most likely the son or possibly even grandson of the company founder, who was born in 1760.

As per company advertisement, the C+C mark was granted in 1805.

Despite the first directory entry being in 1822, Elliot was unequivocally producing razors at least as far back as the 1790's.

I'd say the razor in question dates from 1815-1830.

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

The Joseph Elliot granted his freedom in 1835 was most likely the son or possibly even grandson of the company founder, who was born in 1760.

As per company advertisement, the C+C mark was granted in 1805.

Despite the first directory entry being in 1822, Elliot was unequivocally producing razors at least as far back as the 1790's.

I'd say the razor in question dates from 1815-1830.

Excellent! Thank you for clarifying that with the date of the Mark

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

The Joseph Elliot granted his freedom in 1835 was most likely the son or possibly even grandson of the company founder, who was born in 1760.

As per company advertisement, the C+C mark was granted in 1805.

Despite the first directory entry being in 1822, Elliot was unequivocally producing razors at least as far back as the 1790's.

I'd say the razor in question dates from 1815-1830.

Thanks for this info, much appreciated.