Thread: 8K my worst stone, or I'm my worst honer?

Mate, after going from 1k, where there is a pen knife sharp feel, say a little better, it cuts arm hair. I then put it on the naniwa deluxe 4k, after that, it's less sharp feel. So I go the 1k's brother the 6K, i find it a lovely smooth fast cutting whetsone. (It needs soaking) Once I've done 10 to 15 strokes round it feels nice on the thumb pad test. Well stuff me if when I put 8-10 strokes on the naniwa SS8k it dulls. I don't know why. What I ended up doing was going back to the King 1k/6k and giving it a dozen or so strokes with slurry on the 6k. After that, I just gave it half a dozen super light on the 10 K naniwaSS. I's OK, but not what I'd hoped to replicate from my Pro honed razor. I could be over expecting, but I'm shaving in the morning. I'll let you know. I'm trying my hardest, and truly getting the shits over this. Crazy as it seems the 8k seems to send me backwards, the 4k not better. I am getting the best results from 1k to 6k to 10 k. I have a 4k and a 8k that I don't get results from. I maybe barking up the wrong tree, but common sense tells me those two stones should be good in a progression. Bob

Originally Posted by bobski

Mate, after going from 1k, where there is a pen knife sharp feel, say a little better, it cuts arm hair. I then put it on the naniwa deluxe 4k, after that, it's less sharp feel. So I go the 1k's brother the 6K, i find it a lovely smooth fast cutting whetsone. (It needs soaking) Once I've done 10 to 15 strokes round it feels nice on the thumb pad test. Well stuff me if when I put 8-10 strokes on the naniwa SS8k it dulls. I don't know why. What I ended up doing was going back to the King 1k/6k and giving it a dozen or so strokes with slurry on the 6k. After that, I just gave it half a dozen super light on the 10 K naniwaSS. I's OK, but not what I'd hoped to replicate from my Pro honed razor. I could be over expecting, but I'm shaving in the morning. I'll let you know. I'm trying my hardest, and truly getting the shits over this. Crazy as it seems the 8k seems to send me backwards, the 4k not better. I am getting the best results from 1k to 6k to 10 k. I have a 4k and a 8k that I don't get results from. I maybe barking up the wrong tree, but common sense tells me those two stones should be good in a progression. Bob

So what you're saying is the razor shaves better off the 6k than the 8k ? All other tests or perceptions are irrelevant.

Re the CrO. We had a member some years back that pasted a strop with 5 micron CrO rather than 0.5 micron. It worked well enough simply because the powder embeds into the medium so the actual size is not such an influence. That doesn't mean it IS as fine as 0.5 powder & you are likely to get random larger scratches in the finish seen under magnification. Will it degrade the shave ? Not likely but don't think it is the same powder.

I have re-assessed my situation. There is nothing wrong with either naniwa 4k or 8k or 10k. I set the bevel successfully with the 1K. (I used to set the bevel on the 4k prior to buying 1-6 combo.) So as of today, I will follow logic. If after bevel setting I dull it on the 4k, I need to examine what I've done wrong., the natural progression to the clay based water stone 6K is nice and I declare straight up it's a smooth stone and gives a shavable edge. So to the 8k, I will use as little pressure as one can, then same on the 10 k. What has been happening is after the 6 ot 7 on ther 8k my edge vanishes. I do believe I have tried to think of it as needing to create an edge, not simply polish one, so my pressure is way to hard. I am not due to shave with 'this' razor for 3 days, so if I have success. with the softly softly approach, all good. If the best I can do is a 6k edge, then would it be wise to lead with the spine on the 8, 10k? (I've watched murray carter, that's how stuffed up I am)? Cheers Bob

The best wisdom is to use just the weight of the blade. A heavy hand on 8k & the edge will vanish.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

The best wisdom is to use just the weight of the blade. A heavy hand on 8k & the edge will vanish.

+1 I also struggled with that for a long time. My current usual progression is Naniwa SS in 1K, 5K, 10K, 12K and then crox on balsa for 7 strokes followed by leather. Works 95% of the time. Once in a while when I have a razor that resists that approach, I will try my Kings in 2K and 6k, or my Norton 4K and 8K, and follow with my yellow coticule. There is always a way, but patience is key. I often walk away for a day or two when stuck.
Also looking forward to the Brissy meet where there will be many to compare hones and edges with.
you know how it goes..."when the student is ready the teacher will appear". We are fortunate to have this community with so many teachers for us willing to share.
Adam.

Originally Posted by Adam G.

+1
Also looking forward to the Brissy meet where there will be many to compare hones and edges with.
you know how it goes..."when the student is ready the teacher will appear". We are fortunate to have this community with so many teachers for us willing to share.
Adam.

Well said Adam: here's what I'm bringing in the way of rocks: Norton 4k/8k, King 1k/6k, a Guangxi stone (the phig), a Welsh yellow lake, a Coticule, a Shapton Pro 12k, a Black Arkansas and an old old barber hone. Can't say I'm a master of anything like all of them but I have developed some confidence with the King and the Norton. I'm hoping I'll get some good advice on other stones.

Originally Posted by bobski

So to the 8k, I will use as little pressure as one can, then same on the 10 k. What has been happening is after the 6 ot 7 on ther 8k my edge vanishes. I do believe I have tried to think of it as needing to create an edge, not simply polish one, so my pressure is way to hard.

I would suggest that after the 4k loose all pressure and just the weight of the blade. After the 4k you are really only polishing/refining it

I'm reading all this and thinking something is missing. Sounds like your seeing the razor is clipping hairs after coming off the 1K, then its not clipping hairs after being honed on an 8k stone or higher? You said it cuts the hairs "at tree top level"after the 1k. You have to remember that when you finish your honing on a 1k stone the razor edge is ragged so its snagging the hairs and will cut them with ease. I don't always see my razors cut hairs just grazing at arm hair tip length after coming off a finishing hone like an 8k or higher. One or two will pop off if they happen to be laying the right way. So what I am seeing is that I need to do after a finishing stone is an HHT or arm hair test a skin level to get an idea if the blade is getting close to shave ready.

Originally Posted by 10Pups

Funny thing I do when I test between stones is forget to strop :<0)

I'll bite, 10Pups. I don't get it or am I missing a funny.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

The best wisdom is to use just the weight of the blade. A heavy hand on 8k & the edge will vanish.

Originally Posted by eddy79

I would suggest that after the 4k loose all pressure and just the weight of the blade. After the 4k you are really only polishing/refining it

As a novice honer myself, I offended the edge in the exact same manner on a blade or two. I'm also learning that different steel seems to hone up differently. I've had to spend 3x the amount of time on, say, the 3K or 8K level, depending on the blade. On others, I seems to be able to go 1K,3K,8K,12K within an hour and have excellent results.

I've found also that using magnification has really been helping. Picked up a cheapie 30x jewelers loupe off amazon for under $5usd.

Good post. I've found fellow SRPers supremely helpful when I run into the unknown(which is just about everything in this sport). I have full confidence my honing would take light year leaps if I attended a get together and got a little one on one with a resident meister.

Kind Regards,
Siguy

I'm using a king icebear 1/6K combo, and it's a great stone.

I'm not sure why the 8K nani isn't improving the edge tho. If it was an 8K norton then it would be a step backwards from the 6K king, so I would understand that. The Nani should be using the same grit standard and with that it should be an improvement.

One thing it might be is slurry. The king's slurry is very smooth and doesn't detract from the finished edge much. The stone cuts faster with a slurry, but is slow to auto slurry so it automatically gets thinner as you work.

I think your probably trying to use the nani with a heavy slurry that is been replenished as you hone, Keeping it pretty thick. Try using the nani without slurry and see if it will improve the 6K.