Thread: Seeking beginner's pistol recommendations

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

The two, while not exlusive to each other, could well be very different.

Home protection: Go BIG or go home... the smaller the firearm, the more likely it is that you will actually have to use it in a nasty situation.

Rarely does a perp challenge a large bore firearm being pointed at them. Would YOU be willing to threaten someone pointing a 12 gauge double barrel shotgun at your face?

As for recreational shooting..... anything is fine, whatever you like is what you will enjoy the most. However, it would be better if you enjoyed using the same firearm you intend to use for self defence, for recreational use. It's always a good idea to be well versed and comfortable with your weapon of choice for self defence.

It is vitally important that you be comfortable with your firearm of choice when confronted with bad people. It is also vitally important that you realize that the more threatening your firearm is to a perp, the less likely you are to have to actually use it to defend yourself by fireing it.

IF it were me.... and I was fixated on having only ONE firearm to serve all purposes, I would go as large a caliber as I could handle. If I had the luxury of having several arms, I would be able to chose one for self defence and one for "fun" or many for fun as case may have it.

My ultimate choice for self defence inside my house? A loaded 12 gauge auto inside a wall with scored drywall near the front door, ready for anything.

It has always been the case that when someone threatens you, demonstrating an overwhelming ability to do that person harm, will usually calm the situation down. If it seems close to a fair fight to the bad guy, he's likely to try. Rarely will he throw a punch if threatend with a Thermo Nuclear device!

The ultimate self defence weapon is the one you never have to use...... When someone is wounded, they can claim all sorts of stuff.... If they are dead, it's only YOUR side of the story that gets told. If they back off and walk away, nobody else gets involved except for the cops, if you call them.


The sign in the gun shop I used to work in stated: "Shop lifters will be shot, survivors will be shot again!"

During the time I worked in that gun shop, only ONE attempt was made at robbing us during business hours. That perp spent 3 months in the hospital before spending time in the penitentiary.


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Honestly, I hope the time NEVER comes where you might have to deal with this sort of situation, but it is ALWAYS a matter of intimidation, so make sure you are waaay more intimidating than whomever wishes you harm and you will likely walk away with zero shots fired and no explaining to do.

Regards

Christian

Being an avid photographer, I really enjoyed that photo. Made me smile.

I had an awesome day today! Went to a public range that another student mentioned. They are $20 a day, and $15 per caliber for rentals. So, there I was, for 3 hours today, trying all sorts of 9mms that they had.

For this visit, I focused on compacts, striker fired, and consisting of ones that two gun shops had suggested me to consider. The plan was to shoot 30 rounds of each rented gun at 3 yards, with a focus on feel in the hands, ease of operation, trigger feel, and the results of the shots on target (realizing that I'd probably get better as more rounds shot.

i tried to take notes, and mark on each target the results from each gun, using a different area of the target. Knowing I don't have many shots under my belt, and that I need to work on technique and consistency, I wasn't concerned about shooting at a far distance. I knew there would be inaccuracy close up. But, I figured any big differences (and there were) would be important to note (even if I didn't understand fully why).

Here are my subjective (likely unskilled) and objective observations.

First up, Springfield XD 4" barrel. Knowing this was the first one, I didn't expect to do well. Subjective: the trigger seemed ok, not hard to pull, but I didn't have much sensation on the reset (I'd pull and hold, and en slowly release to feel/hear the reset point). The pull was pretty short. Grip was ok, although by the end, there was a little discomfort on my dominant (right) hand middle finger at the bottom of the trigger guard. Objective, the shots were pretty spread out 5-6" worst case, a cluster near the center, 10+ low and to the right, one off to the lower left.

next, I tried the Glock 19 gen 4. My hopes were up for this, as I know it is popular, and there's a lot of mods available. I was concerned about the squarish grip though. Subjective: the grip was ok, not uncomfortable, just different than the P320 I shot in class. It has harder to pull the trigger, and seemed to have more felt recoil to me. Very clear indication of reset on the trigger. I liked the sight a bit better (u shaped rear, single dot). It was easier to sight, I thought. Objective: more symmetrical pattern, a few higher, cluster in the center, some lower on either side of centerline. Still a spread of 6" vertically, but most within a 3" radius.

Third up, the S&W MP9. Mixed bag with this one. Subjective. The grip seemed much more comfortable. It was the thinnest of the lot. The recoil did not feel as severe. The trigger pull was very short, and easier than the Glock. I had two time though, that it didn't fire. First and fourth rounds. On the first, I racked and then it was ok. The second one I ejected and reinserted the mag, and it was ok. The trigger reset was hard to detect, but the travel is very short. Front dot was harder to see for me. Rental guy said it could be that it was dirty. Objective: large cluster near the middle, four outliers, one about 4" away from center, the other a out three. Some higher to the left, some lower to the right.

Fourth Walther PPQ. Subjective: very comfortable grip, though felt a little odd at the back (palm) - may have been texture - nothing annoying. Short trigger pull, with a very clear audible and tactical feel for reset. Smooth trigger feel. Easier to see sight dots. Recoil was not bad. Objective: really great shot group. Almost all within 1.5" radius, one outlier 2" away (lower left)and one 3" away (high left) on reload had one about 3" away. By far the best accuracy for me.

From her on, I used 5 yards, so that I could do head shots w/o shots hitting the ceiling down range.

Fifth HK VP9 Subjective: comfortable grip, dots ok to see on sight. Had a clear reset on trigger, and small travel, before it nears breaking point, then harder to pull. Issue was, I couldn't get the mag to release (paddle) with my thumb, and didn't like the idea of using trigger finger. I only shot 15 rounds with this. Objective:they were well placed all within a 2" circle, except for one outlier at 3" low.

Sixth Ruger SR 9 Subjective: grip left finger hanging, but they had a mag with a grip extension on it so it was fine lengthwise. Just a bit awkward, until you loaded. Comfortable grip. Very bright front sight dot. Trigger was stiffer and had a clear reset. Seemed like more felt recoil than Glock. Objective: most wee within 2" circle at 5 yards. There were 4 at about 3" away two high, two low and to the right.

Seventh Sig P320 Subjective: this I shot 250 rounds over two nights in a class, at various distances. I wanted to shoot 15 rounds to see how it compared at this range, and after shooting a bunch. Had a harder, but crisp pull. Harder to see the sight dot. Lots of felt recoil. Objective: horrible shots at 5 yards. One dead on, 2 at 2" several at 3-4" and one about 6" away. A few to the left, most just low.

To see if this was fatigue, and I had 30 rounds left. I did 15 rounds with the Glock (since I used this second - wanted to give another try). They were all over the place in the lower left quadrant, numerous at 2-3", some at 4" and 3 at 6" away.
with the last 15, I tried the PPQ again, at 5 yards this time. All shots were within a 2" circle, some upper left, some lower left, some lower right. Night and day difference between the three guns.

After 3 hours and 200 rounds, I was done with this session.

Great review. I haven't seen a back to back comparison of all the popular striker guns like that.

The PPQ backstraps are interchangeable, so you may be able to get rid of the weird feeling. If the PPQ had just been around back when I bought my Glock, I very probably would have bought it

google "handgun target analysis" and you'll come up with a wide selection of these in 'images'. Probably most basically the same, but some are for left handed shooters. This is for a right hander. Hope this may give something good to go with ;

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Of the three: Fit to hand, sights you can see, trigger you can use. The greatest one is the trigger you can use.

Originally Posted by Hirlau

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Fortunately, I didn't have any in the red

Great chart though, for a beginner like me. I certaining was exhibiting the "tightening grip while pulling the trigger". Only a few of the "jerking or slapping the trigger", and some of the "breaking wrist down, pushing forward (likely), or drooping head (don't think I did)".

The one web site had descriptions of each, and more details. Interesting read. I'm still trying to figure out the stance, grip, etc. With all this gun evals, I'm getting some practice!

Originally Posted by pcm

I'm still trying to figure out the stance, grip, etc. With all this gun evals, I'm getting some practice!

This may be so basic that you've already learned it, but ......... in the 1970s I shot NRA 'Bullseye' competition with a pistol club. An outfit called Gil Hebard Guns, out of Knoxville, TN, had a lot of supplies for that sport. I bought "A Pistol Shooter's Treasury" and learned quite a bit.

Focusing on the sight alignment while controlling trigger pull was the key. The main focus being on the front sight, keeping it aligned with the rear, the target is a blur. Looking from sights to target causes poor marksmanship. Sights in sharp focus, target a blur and your groups will tighten up.

Originally Posted by pcm

Fortunately, I didn't have any in the red

Great chart though, for a beginner like me. I certaining was exhibiting the "tightening grip while pulling the trigger". Only a few of the "jerking or slapping the trigger", and some of the "breaking wrist down, pushing forward (likely), or drooping head (don't think I did)".

The one web site had descriptions of each, and more details. Interesting read. I'm still trying to figure out the stance, grip, etc. With all this gun evals, I'm getting some practice!

Self diagnosis only goes so far. There's so many variables not on the chart. A trained instructor will be able to watch you take two shots and figure out what you are doing.

Originally Posted by wrxguyusa

Self diagnosis only goes so far. There's so many variables not on the chart. A trained instructor will be able to watch you take two shots and figure out what you are doing.

Absolutely! I signed up for another class, handgun 102.5, which is before the defensive shooting intro class, for people that want to work on speed and accuracy, before moving forward. I'm waiting until June, so I have time to get a handgun, and to practice a bit as well.