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What is minimal pay, and why does everyone expect benefits?
Suppose the employer is always at fault, regardless of the employee/union's having the same motive;
Everyone wants more for less.
It should be everyone's right to start up a business to make exponential profits on your investment, and subsequently "sink" it when you see fit, most of you would if you could.
Eric.
I hear you - and I might even agree - but it is important to note epd that basic human needs are not taken care of by the state in America as it is in Canada.Quote:
Originally Posted by epd
I am not trying to be combative or create a us vs. them mentality - but having healthcare is a big thing. Subsidized housing possibly. Maybe even a good public transportation system.
These things are not a give in in many US city's. For example, here in the city I live in in KS... you really don't want to live in subsidized anything if you have a family - there is virtually no public transportation, and healthcare is seriously expensive!!
Not having benefits in this city... well you might as well be on the dole.
And in this case, the management is wrong because they have given themselves massive pay raises and millions in bonuses while claiming the company is going under and forcing the employees to give up health care and percentages of salary.
If you ask an employee making 12 bucks an hour to take an 8 percent pay cut, that's big and will be felt. Even a 20 dollar an hour employee will be financially hurt by that. Especially when you consider that health care costs hundreds of dollars a month here.
But everybody would agree to cuts like that, and did, to keep the company afloat and keep their jobs.
But when management is claiming that the workers need to make another round of large and painful cuts to keep the company in business, while at the same time giving themselves bonuses of many times the annual pay of the workers, and 300 percent (yes, you read that right) pay raises, well then they are simply wrong.
David --
"Another supreme court judge once said that, you can't suck and blow at the same time! In business, you can't make huge profits quickly and still sell quality. "
Look at the quarterlies of Lionel Corporation from 1946-1956. Those profit margins refute the "esteemed magistrate's" opinion.
Arg! You are killing me MLA - I try to be vague, and leave all kinds of openings for the understanding that there are no absolutes but clearly... the concept that business today vs. business back in the day can't be compared. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by mapleleafalumnus
It's a brave new world bro! Toys in the day vs. toys today... not the same thing. But in all seriousness - there are always exceptions! Take cars for example. We are starting to get both. Or are we lol?
This isn't rocket science.Quote:
Originally Posted by epd
Just pick up a history book and read what the average person's life was like in the late 1800s before labor laws and regulations and unions existed. In those days if you started a business you kept just about everything you made and your employees were basically your slaves just that they were paid a pittance.
Do you think folks would want to go back to that?
David, specificity is the assassin of the lazy mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
Besides, the way to compare manufactured products of differing eras is to compare their standard deviations. It's like comparing apples to oranges: convert them both into cherries.
GOTCHA!!!:gwh:
LOL - you are flirting with me now :). But seriously, I have way to small a mind to keep all the things you are talking about variable wise going on in my mind - what you are talking about, needs a HUGE data base, and some nerd dude with tape on his glasses who can mix and match variables like a king lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleleafalumnus
That's not me... sigh.
David --
You don't need to be a super-geek-techno-weenie to figure this stuff out. They hide all that information in books, you know!
I'm just kidding, bro!
Very true but the days of the Triangle Shirtwaist tragedy of 1911 is thankfully a thing in the past. Back in the day unions were an important thing to have, for safety as a number one reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
The way I look at unions can only be observed thru my trade Tool & Die. When I started in this trade 27 years ago. there were countless union shops in Philadelphia that I knew. Today there isnt a single one that is open today. That includes The Budd plant who probably built more dies for the american auto industry then any other company.
Where are they now? As a owner of a small shop, I would never be told how to conduct my business especially from a worker. Raises should be given out on merit, not by some schedule set by the worker. Why is the owner always the bad guy when it comes to making a profit?