Thread: Razor build + questions

Is there a particular reason for working with 1095? I've heard many people talk about warping / cracking 1095 during quench. And my own water quenching adventures have a number banana shaped objects in them. But with oil quenching Ox family steels I haven't had a single one do anything bad. No warping, no cracking. So I am just wondering why one would choose 1095 over e.g. O1 which are both readily available in the US.

Agree on everything that has been said. 3/16 stock is too narrow for an 8/8 blade unless you plan on using 5+ layers of electrical tape.

I keep the edges to 0.032 to 0.064 before heat treat to not warp. 0.04-0.05 is probably what I shoot for most of the time.

1095 is a hard steel to work with while starting out. I would recommend an oil quench over water while starting out with this steel to get the hang of things.

You really need to use a fast quench oil for best results with 1095 though. Parks #50 or Houghton -Quench K are probably best. They are expensive and Parks is notoriously hard to find. Houghton will sell small quantities, but it is pricey too.

Make sure to taper that tang as has been mentioned.

I would also suggest to not take your grind all the way to the spine. I actually leave a good 1/4" or more pre-heat treat and post-heat treat I always shoot for a small sliver remaining.

For a first razor though I would recommend grabbing some 1084 or O1. Much easier to work with and you can successfully quench in something simple like heated canola oil.

With each mistake we get closer to success :<0) I would roll that RSO on a strop too. You may make some design changes for better handling on strop and hone after the next one is finished. It looks cool that's for sure.

Oil quench - 150 degree canola. My issue was that since the blade was so gosh-darn thin, by the time I checked for non-magnetic, it had already begun to cool.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Is there a particular reason for working with 1095? I've heard many people talk about warping / cracking 1095 during quench. And my own water quenching adventures have a number banana shaped objects in them. But with oil quenching Ox family steels I haven't had a single one do anything bad. No warping, no cracking. So I am just wondering why one would choose 1095 over e.g. O1 which are both readily available in the US.

Originally Posted by Harvitz81

Agree on everything that has been said. 3/16 stock is too narrow for an 8/8 blade unless you plan on using 5+ layers of electrical tape.

I keep the edges to 0.032 to 0.064 before heat treat to not warp. 0.04-0.05 is probably what I shoot for most of the time.

1095 is a hard steel to work with while starting out. I would recommend an oil quench over water while starting out with this steel to get the hang of things.

You really need to use a fast quench oil for best results with 1095 though. Parks #50 or Houghton -Quench K are probably best. They are expensive and Parks is notoriously hard to find. Houghton will sell small quantities, but it is pricey too.

Make sure to taper that tang as has been mentioned.

I would also suggest to not take your grind all the way to the spine. I actually leave a good 1/4" or more pre-heat treat and post-heat treat I always shoot for a small sliver remaining.

For a first razor though I would recommend grabbing some 1084 or O1. Much easier to work with and you can successfully quench in something simple like heated canola oil.

My issue with O1 is just that it's so expensive for me. I'm just a lowly teenager, woe is me. Wages for people my age are pretty pitiful, and I just figured that 1095 would be economic to start off with. Little did I know that it's such a queen for precision quenching. I think I read something with the crystalline structure being perfect at 1550F, quenched in .5 sec? That's impossible for me, especially since I have no real way of controlling my temperature.

Trust me fellas, I'm a sucker for buying the best that I can afford, but right now, premium steels and a heat treat oven are just too top-heavy to be considered. If anyone has a spare Evenheat they want to get rid of, I'll happily take it off their hands.

Originally Posted by 10Pups

With each mistake we get closer to success :<0) I would roll that RSO on a strop too. You may make some design changes for better handling on strop and hone after the next one is finished. It looks cool that's for sure.

Oh boy, that can't be more true.

When I first started stropping knives, I DESTROYED a lovely vintage horsehide strop. Looking back, I'd like to kick my tail, but if it had not been for that mistake, I might still be doing edge-leading stropping on a hanging hide.....

Also, thank you for your kind words; I drool over the W&B "Celebrated" 9/8 and 8/8's, so that's kind of what I was shooting for, but with a "grim" look.

Originally Posted by Harvitz81

Agree on everything that has been said. 3/16 stock is too narrow for an 8/8 blade unless you plan on using 5+ layers of electrical tape.

I keep the edges to 0.032 to 0.064 before heat treat to not warp. 0.04-0.05 is probably what I shoot for most of the time.

1095 is a hard steel to work with while starting out. I would recommend an oil quench over water while starting out with this steel to get the hang of things.

You really need to use a fast quench oil for best results with 1095 though. Parks #50 or Houghton -Quench K are probably best. They are expensive and Parks is notoriously hard to find. Houghton will sell small quantities, but it is pricey too.

Make sure to taper that tang as has been mentioned.

I would also suggest to not take your grind all the way to the spine. I actually leave a good 1/4" or more pre-heat treat and post-heat treat I always shoot for a small sliver remaining.

For a first razor though I would recommend grabbing some 1084 or O1. Much easier to work with and you can successfully quench in something simple like heated canola oil.

Duly noted, thank you. I'm a real sucker for symmetry, and I accidentally bumped the fresh 36 belt on the spine and muffed it up - so I just had to take both to full-height. In fact, I only photographed the left side of the razor because the ricasso on the right side is ever so slightly blended. Grr!

On the topic of tapering the tang however - is there a more efficient way than just heating and hammering? That seemed to give me the most crisp and even looking taper. On the grinder, things just went too fast, and had to be cleaned up a lot.

Thank you for sharing your process, I really appreciate the help and comments from everyone.

These days I always hammer out the blanks on my anvil, and then anneal them before I take them to the grinder. That way I have to remove a lot less metal. The blade section will be more or less triangular at that point, and the tang tapered. I'll still need to grind everything symmertical, but that takes a lot less time than starting with square stock. Esp. On the blade section.

Of course, you need to put more effort in making sure that after forging, the blade and tang are aligned properly. And you need to make sure the blade is annealed properly because otherwise dirlling the pivot hole will be difficult and murder on your drill bit.

No telling how many drill bits I have smoked from not annealing and the steel getting work hardened. I "mostly" drill immediately after profiling now.

Bruno, according to my recent readings from a well known knife maker & others, your method of profiling on the grinder and then making a wedge on the anvil is supposed to make a more durable blade.

To the OP, if you try this venture again (I am sure you will!), I would most definitely recommend working with o-1 steel. My forge is a gas forge and I don't have the exact temp controls that guys have with electric ovens and I have ruined a lot of 1095. I still heat the steel in a pipe so that the flame doesn't contact the steel. I've been working with 1095 ONLY due to the desire to get hamons on some of my works. I have a temp probe to get the temps right or I wouldn't even try working with 1095. You are right, it is cheaper, but if I were to count my losses I would be WAY ahead if I had stuck with a oil quenching steel like o-1.

When I first got into shaping steel by stock removal method, I sent my blades off to a pro for heat treatment. They have the experience and tools to get it right....even then I thinned a few blades down so much that they potato chipped. They warned me though before they proceeded.

Originally Posted by Cornicus

My issue with O1 is just that it's so expensive for me. I'm just a lowly teenager, woe is me. Wages for people my age are pretty pitiful, and I just figured that 1095 would be economic to start off with. Little did I know that it's such a queen for precision quenching. I think I read something with the crystalline structure being perfect at 1550F, quenched in .5 sec? That's impossible for me, especially since I have no real way of controlling my temperature.

Trust me fellas, I'm a sucker for buying the best that I can afford, but right now, premium steels and a heat treat oven are just too top-heavy to be considered. If anyone has a spare Evenheat they want to get rid of, I'll happily take it off their hands.

You can do 1095 in a forge - no need for an evenheat oven. Best to cover the steel with a stainless steel pipe or the like so flame isn't directly hitting the edge if using a venturi or gas-blower forge.

For about $50-100 you can get a thermocouple and reader that will be invaluable in the future.

For now you can turn the lights down when heat treating and go by color. Bright Cherry red is what you should shoot for. Don't let it get to orange in color. Once all the razor is bright red quench quickly in your heated canola oil. I've used canola oil in the past for 1095. Not ideal, but can work for what you are trying to do.

Next attempt, just don't grind so thin and to the spine. I'd say shoot for a 6/8 wide blade given your stock and go by color when heat treating. Taper that tang as well and you will be off to a good start.