Thread: Melting Down Old Steel

I understand the OP's interest in recycling old razors, but it's the application side of things that are the tough stuff. The majority of my frustrations have come from "unknown" steels and experimentation...but that's how I'm programmed I guess. It is much easier to work with known steels & guess what? Mike Blue & others like Butch, Bruno & Charlie made that recommendation to me when I was getting starting working with steel. They said to stick with the simple steels like 0-1 & 1095. It really is cheaper to stick with known steels if you consider time & fuel alone.

I won't suggest that my attitude is less cautious than I might imply. I have witnessed several incidents of mini-volcano proportions and others with molten metals that have gotten away from their handlers to cause injury.

The problem with ground water has plagued smelters for a few thousand years. There is an archeological story about casting a 50 ton bronze bell in China. They had cut the mold for the bell into the side of a sandstone cliff. When they poured the molten bronze it hit ground water the melters did not anticipate and it blew the top of the hill off killing all the nearby workers. There are numerous reports in near history of 30-40 workers etc being killed in the vicinity of small melts around 6 tons.

When I work with molten salts heat treating (mini volcano) even a drop of water in the top hitting the liquid surface reacts as if someone fired a gun inside the building and the action-reaction will spray molten salt all over the ceiling and anyone nearby.

I watched a group of art students carrying a 100lb ladle during a metal casting class slop just a little bit over the lip. Maybe an ounce of fluid went down the leather leg of one of the fellows onto the top of his cordura shnikes. No, he was not wearing the required complete outfit, despite his leather chaps and all the other gear. He took off like a rabbit, and does not remember ever running. The professor tackled him stripped off the shoe and dunked the foot in ice and probably saved his toes.

During a smelt of my own, we were digging around in the slag arch and a wild drop managed to crawl up my leg and down into a high top (mid calf) boot and both hands were full of tools at the time. It made for a very funny break dance moment and the burn, although small, took weeks to heal properly. Nobody helping could figure out if I was having a seizure or a stroke until we got the work done and I hopped around trying to get my boot off. Molten steel will skitter around and get into places you just wouldn't expect.

No...caution is the rule.

When you pull off a project though, you feel like you really did something!

The fantasy of pulling it off is what draws me to wanting to try melting down some ore or steel. I've got a lot to learn myself, but the seed is planted and has taken root.

Another problem you would run into is heat treating the blade of the unknow steel.... or steels in your case. A good heat treat and temper can be tricky with known steel and a heat treat recipie to go with it. Mystery steel heat treat can be very difficult and frustrating. It would be pretty frustrating to go through all that work to smelt and grind yourself a blade and then not be able to get a proper heat treat.

One more problem you would run into is decarb. Heating the steel hot enough to melt would cause a lot of the carbon in the steel to leave in favor of the oxygen. There is a good chance you would be left with a steel that didnt have enough carbon in it to heat treat it even if you tried.

Just some food for thought.

I've spent over 8 years in a foundry/rolling mill. Molten metal is EXTREMELY dangerous. However, you can melt down old "unknown" metal objects and re-use them. We would "spark" the scrap metal to see what it was comprised of. Then we would sort it into different types or categories. After they were melted down we would pour samples and "spark" them to see what the composition was. From there we could add the appropriate alloys to get it to where we wanted. At that point we would cast it into ingots and then roll the ingots into sheet and plate up to 10 inches thick.

So yes it can be done. However, it's probably not something you'd want to do at home or even have the proper tools and equipment to do so safely. You also have to do a whole bunch at a time to make it cost effective.

The insurance companies have convinced the local university, long known for graduating shop teachers, that casting any materials such as iron and steel are a no- no! The foundry is closed and is used for long term junk storage! The only folks seeming to be able to do hot work, other than welding, are the art students...for now!

I have developed a healthy respect for molten metals without regard to their composition.
~Richard

Originally Posted by Geezer

The insurance companies have convinced the local university, long known for graduating shop teachers, that casting any materials such as iron and steel are a no- no! The foundry is closed and is used for long term junk storage! The only folks seeming to be able to do hot work, other than welding, are the art students...for now!

I have developed a healthy respect for molten metals without regard to their composition.
~Richard

When I registered with the IRS I had to pick a category for my activities, which is officially 'Manufacturer of knives and hand tools', which is a subcategory of 'Metal working, with the exception of casting or mold injection'. Seems that if you want to do the latter as a job activity, that's a separate registration, possibly for environmental reasons (and permits etc).

+1 for dangerous and cost prohibitive. unless you have a lot of money and time, then it might be possible.

Originally Posted by Bruno

When I registered with the IRS I had to pick a category for my activities, which is officially 'Manufacturer of knives and hand tools', which is a subcategory of 'Metal working, with the exception of casting or mold injection'. Seems that if you want to do the latter as a job activity, that's a separate registration, possibly for environmental reasons (and permits etc).

Different regulators. Molten metal has it's own set of rules and laws for safety and environmental reasons.

Originally Posted by Bruno

When I registered with the IRS I had to pick a category for my activities, which is officially 'Manufacturer of knives and hand tools', which is a subcategory of 'Metal working, with the exception of casting or mold injection'. Seems that if you want to do the latter as a job activity, that's a separate registration, possibly for environmental reasons (and permits etc).

You had to register with the U.S. IRS from Belgium? Or does Belgium have an IRS too.