Thread: Melting Down Old Steel

So, sorry if this is an old topic. Today, like most days, I was cruising the bay and I am just always struck by old sheffield steel that is no longer any good - like WAY beyond restoring, you know, wall of shame stuff.

Has anyone ever melted that steel down and re-made razors using it? If this just too much work and not worth it? I have ZERO metallurgical experience and even less capacity - just curious! Even if it wasn't for a new razor. For instance, I think I would buy a cool ring melted down and made from some sweet old sheffield steel, especially if it was stamped you know? Am I crazy!?!?!

There is zero point to it.

Off the top of my head:

- There are many different types of Sheffield steel. You'd be mixing many unknowns.
- It's also time consuming.
- It's freakin' dangerous. Seriously, molten steel can kill you. There are many things that are not obvious but can have catastrophic effects.
- It's cost prohibitive. Good quality tool steel is less expensive than just the fuel you need to melt the same amount of steel.

I have plans to do a melt someday, but it's not something I treat lightly.
Carelessness about temperature gradients can make things explode, and molten steel is not something you want flying around near you. With careful planning you can of course do it, and do it safely. But it's not something to jump into without careful preparation.

Did you just talk yourself into it!? Zero point, or you are going to do it some day?

IIRC, in reading about this topic in the past, the temperature to melt it to a molten state is considerable. Maybe beyond the resources of the average hobbyist ? Not sure ........

Originally Posted by Bruno

There is zero point to it.

Off the top of my head:

- There are many different types of Sheffield steel. You'd be mixing many unknowns.
- It's also time consuming.
- It's freakin' dangerous. Seriously, molten steel can kill you. There are many things that are not obvious but can have catastrophic effects.
- It's cost prohibitive. Good quality tool steel is less expensive than just the fuel you need to melt the same amount of steel.

I have plans to do a melt someday, but it's not something I treat lightly.
Carelessness about temperature gradients can make things explode, and molten steel is not something you want flying around near you. With careful planning you can of course do it, and do it safely. But it's not something to jump into without careful preparation.

You know what they say:
:

While melt is unrealistic, what about forge welding the pieces together and then just hammering them into whatever new shape you want?

Now, where the Bruno (to this date) fears to tread, there are a few of us who would and could dare such things. Bruno's cautions about the dangers are worthy of consideration, as are his correct assertion that it's simply cheaper to start with new good enough steel bars. With the right equipment, to achieve the right temperatures (steel melts at a lower temperature than iron) and controls over the process, it can be done with only smallish sorts of risks to the operators.

I'd start mailing all your broken bits to Bruno. Once his wife gets tired of walking around the growing scrap pile he will be forced to do his melt.

I'm not sure about the different types of Sheffield steels. Once upon a time, Josh and I looked at spectrographs of the steels in a hundred or so dead razors from several Swedish, German, Italian, French and UK manufacturers. What was very interesting was that the chemistry was nearly identical across all those manufacturers and with no statistical difference between them and the old Sheffield blades tested. I would argue that Sheffield steels for razors were very consistent and highly prized by multiple manufacturers.

Magpie: As to forge welding a bunch of broken pieces: some material will be lost to the process, but a lot of other steel scraps have been forge welded into billets for years longer than the metal recycling yards have been in business. Laying up the broken pieces to minimize the gaps and not having to do much spot welding to hold the mass together would be the way to get it done. Some fellows would wrap the mass of old razors in used heat treatment foil, then the wrapped bunch into a mild steel tube and weld the whole into a solid, then peel the outside casing off the foil and remove that. The semi-welded batch of razors could be further refined with additional flux and welding cycles. Some carbon might be lost but there is plenty to begin with and a usable bar would be the likely result.

Clarification: I am not going to melt old sheffield steel because as I said, it's pointless. Known steel of equal quality is still cheaper.
I am planning to do a wootz melt someday. That is not pointless. It's still dangerous, but at least it will be worth it and with enough preparation, the risks can be minimized.

I read an account of someone who was lucky to be alive after a melt. He melted down aluminium (which still has a lower melting point than steel) and was casting into a mold. He had accounted for everything he knew of. Unfortunately he had failed to anticipate the fact that the concrete floor might have trapped moisture inside. As he was pouring into the mold, the concrete underneath got hot, the water turned to steam, the concrete exploded, the mold fragmented and a blob of molten aluminium went flying away, but missed him.

Stories like that make me cautious, and consider the risk vs benefit equation.
For wootz this may be worth it. For plain carbon steel, not so much.

Originally Posted by Bruno

- It's freakin' dangerous. Seriously, molten steel can kill you. There are many things that are not obvious but can have catastrophic effects.
...

Carelessness about temperature gradients can make things explode, and molten steel is not something you want flying around near you.

I don't see the problem... safety glasses are cheap, and if you are so worried about it, just get one of your kids to do it for you

Too much thinking going on here I do believe.