Thread: workin on some rescales.....

Originally Posted by UKRob

U
Although liners do help they are no guarantee that the wood will not split - I know this from experience of using veneer as a liner. I had two sets split and not even at the pivot hole so I'm reluctant to use burl now.

was the veneer a single layer, single direction? single layer/direction not as stable as a multi-directional veneer and could crack just as easy as not using a liner at all. the benefit of the g10 id that it isnt susceptible to this problem at all and provides an awesome base for the top layer. even if the burl develops a crack the g10 is unaffected. you can repair the crack and make it look seemless and not worry about the integrity of the scales being compromised. with the veneer liner made from at least 2 layers running perpendicular to each other the strength and stability is far increased, especially for burl which has grain direction going all over the place with no way to predict where a crack may develop.
the set of burl that cracked on me prior to epoxying to the g10 liner is solid and stable while bending back and forth as well, a good testament to using g10 as a liner. great material in my opinion

As G10/FP4 is just good quality epoxy base FRP, we know that it can be very strong and stiff or flexible in a very predictable way depending on its dimesions and shape, how it is laid up, etc. Have you ever used metal liners like 400 series SS or titanium?

Originally Posted by silverloaf

was the veneer a single layer, single direction? single layer/direction not as stable as a multi-directional veneer and could crack just as easy as not using a liner at all. the benefit of the g10 id that it isnt susceptible to this problem at all and provides an awesome base for the top layer. even if the burl develops a crack the g10 is unaffected. you can repair the crack and make it look seemless and not worry about the integrity of the scales being compromised. with the veneer liner made from at least 2 layers running perpendicular to each other the strength and stability is far increased, especially for burl which has grain direction going all over the place with no way to predict where a crack may develop.
the set of burl that cracked on me prior to epoxying to the g10 liner is solid and stable while bending back and forth as well, a good testament to using g10 as a liner. great material in my opinion

Originally Posted by JDM61

As G10/FP4 is just good quality epoxy base FRP, we know that it can be very strong and stiff or flexible in a very predictable way depending on its dimesions and shape, how it is laid up, etc. Have you ever used metal liners like 400 series SS or titanium?

no but i did pick up some titanium, however at 1/16" what i have is too thick for liners in my opinion, would be too heavy for my taste. ill pick up some thinner stock to out at some point though. any suggestion for a good thickness for liners in 400 ss or ti?

I've used G10 very thin liners for some black MOP scales and agree it's a really good base to work from. In answer to the earlier question, my veneer was Wenge, single layer and when the burl,split the veneer was not strong enough to hold a correct shape and made a repair impossible. G10 would have held its shape as you said.

Originally Posted by UKRob

I've used G10 very thin liners for some black MOP scales and agree it's a really good base to work from. In answer to the earlier question, my veneer was Wenge, single layer and when the burl,split the veneer was not strong enough to hold a correct shape and made a repair impossible. G10 would have held its shape as you said.

i bet it was beautiful though! shame it went KERSPLITZ! i always hate putting in the time and effort to make something just to have it turn out a disappointment. i get so attached to projects!

That .030 seems like it would work well for about any material, right? I think that Alpha had some Ti in that thickness, but they are closed down for now while they are moving their shop. USA Knifemaker HAD some .032 and currently has some 12 x 12 sheets of .040 Ti sheet. I looks like Online Metals has 410 in any size you want starting at .008, but their price for a 12 x 12 x .032 sheet is 60% more than what you wold pay for that .040 titanium . Apparently they don't like selling small pieces because a 12 x 12 sheet is $83, but a 12 x 24 sheet is only $93 and the prices appear to keep dropping the bigger that piece. Unfortunately, my experience has been that 416, which is the easiest of the martensitic low to medium carbon stainless steels to work with, just doesn't come in thicknesses less than 3/167 anymore. The only reason that i have bought any 410 was because I could no longer get 1/8 416. The good thing about 400 series is that you can harden it to a "spring" temper in the low tp mid 40Rc range with pretty simple tools.

Originally Posted by silverloaf

no but i did pick up some titanium, however at 1/16" what i have is too thick for liners in my opinion, would be too heavy for my taste. ill pick up some thinner stock to out at some point though. any suggestion for a good thickness for liners in 400 ss or ti?

Edit. I was in my shop this evening and i discovered that I had a 6 x 12 sheet of tempered .040 410 SS that I had forgotten about. I though that I only has some 1/8 stuff. To my eye, it is about as thick as you would want to go and I'm thinking that maybe the .030 or even .025 would be better. Another funny thing about finding that sheet was that there was a little patch on the edge where I had tested out my 30 lpi Grobert checkering file when I first got it from Brownells to see how it would work for "coining" the edge of liners, spewers, etc. It worked pretty well even though the 410 was already hardened and tempered.

I've used .01 brass and found it quite stiff and difficult to bond to. I had to drill small holes through it to get the epoxy to stick. Heavy sanding - roughing the surface was insufficient. It looks wonderful though. The G10 I've used bonded easily with some gentle sanding, which I don't know if it was really necessary.

Originally Posted by Hart

I've used .01 brass and found it quite stiff and difficult to bond to. I had to drill small holes through it to get the epoxy to stick. Heavy sanding - roughing the surface was insufficient. It looks wonderful though. The G10 I've used bonded easily with some gentle sanding, which I don't know if it was really necessary.

I've also used brass but at about .006 which allows sufficient flex but is still very heavy when the other material is added. I found it bonded to both wood and horn with just a roughing from a small file. I use epoxy resin rather than CA.

Originally Posted by UKRob

I've also used brass but at about .006 which allows sufficient flex but is still very heavy when the other material is added. I found it bonded to both wood and horn with just a roughing from a small file. I use epoxy resin rather than CA.

I too used epoxy and roughed the brass with 80 grit sandpaper but it still peeled off with little effort. I was careful not to use too much epoxy or clamp too tight.

Originally Posted by Hart

It looks wonderful though.

"Wonderful" is woefully inadequate to describe how that W&B turned out Hart.

It is beyond even "absolutely stunning".