Thread: 4140 steel and other steel for post anvils?

I don't think it has to be hardened. Iirc, Mike's anvil is just a block of 4140 that is not heat treated.
It's simple really. If you work the steel hot enough, it will always be a lot softer than the anvil steel, so it, and not the anvil will move.

Of course that presumes that it, and not the anvil, will be hit. As an amateur, would I be better off with one that is heat treated? Obviously I would not intend to hit it and would try to be careful.

Over time, would the anvil be somewhat hardened by having hot steel pounded on above it?

Yes, it would be work hardened a bit over time. That is what Mike posted about his anvils here in the forge, some time ago in some other discussion.
Now you mention being an amateur. since you are also a scientist, consider this. A heavy blow, a hardened hammer head, and a hardened steel anvil that is 100 times heavier than the hammer. Neither will suffer any plastic deformation. What is the logical conclusion we can make?

Randy, any of those blocks will work as anvils. I have made many of them and they will work even without Heat treatment. Work hardening will be your friend. As Bruno says, the hot steel is plastic, the hammer and anvil less so. The hot steel doesn't have much of a choice.

Thank you Bruno & Mike Blue. Your comments are much appreciated.

This morning, while I was having my first cup of coffee I came to the same conclusion as what Bruno posted. The razor steel will be hot and soft thus it will absorb the force, not the face of the anvil.

Plus this happened this evening........

I went to the Guild of Metal Smiths get together this evening ( Minnesota black smithing group).
There were more than 50 people there with all kinds of cool stuff.
I asked a bunch of them about the steel for the post anvils. There response was that it probably does not matter even if it is mild steel. Their reasoning is that I will be striking metal that is hot & soft so that will absorb the force from the hammer blow. They did concede that if I missed and struck the anvil then it may make a dent . But that is not big deal because I can turn the anvil end for end or mill out the divot or simply cutoff a 1/4" from the end. One guy did look at the piece of steel with the orange end and said he thought it was tool steel. That makes sense since the company that had it for sale was a machine tool company.

The other good thing was that the host had a very big & nice piles of scrap iron! Some round pipe and some square & rectangular tubing. He said I should bring my anvil material over and then we could see what might be suitable for the posts.

This project is moving along nicely.

Checked my colours
w2 - orange
1095 - yellow
1075 - blue
1084 - green
O1 - was black or nothing





Not sure if the colours are universal or not but might help

Originally Posted by Bruno

Yes, it would be work hardened a bit over time. That is what Mike posted about his anvils here in the forge, some time ago in some other discussion.
Now you mention being an amateur. since you are also a scientist, consider this. A heavy blow, a hardened hammer head, and a hardened steel anvil that is 100 times heavier than the hammer. Neither will suffer any plastic deformation. What is the logical conclusion we can make?

Logically -and I know this to be true by experience- if neither object has plastic deformation, there will be no loss of energy. And if one object is orders of magnitude heavier than the other, the heavy object will remain in rest, and the other will go flying back with 100% of the speed with which it landed, but in the opposite direction. If you miss a heavy blow, you stand a good chance of hitting yourself full in the face with almost the same speed with which the hammer hit the anvil.

In contrast with the anvil, the deformation of your face will be largely plasic, causing it to absorb most of the impact.

And that 'es no bueno'
I haven't hit myself yet, but I've had a close call.

This is also why working the steel at yellow temperatures is a lot easier on the arm. Firstly because you have to hit less often, but also because the impact of the hammer does a lot more plastic deformation. The colder the steel, the more energy will go back into your arm.

Originally Posted by Substance

Checked my colours
w2 - orange
1095 - yellow
1075 - blue
1084 - green
O1 - was black or nothing





Not sure if the colours are universal or not but might help

I think the coloring system used for steel is universal. That orange on the end matches mine perfectly. Thanks a bunch!

Originally Posted by randydance062449

I think the coloring system used for steel is universal. That orange on the end matches mine perfectly. Thanks a bunch!

I was about to reply with the opposite. (I guess I still am). My impression has always been that these colors were an in house code that varied from warehouse to warehouse, or mill to mill, possibly changing with heat number. I really don't know though. Maybe you and Substance can compare spark tests, since he has a bunch of known steels.

Originally Posted by randydance062449

This project is moving along nicely.

That's great Randy.
I'm looking forward to mooching off of you!