Thread: If you were going to make a production razor...

Stampibg is what dovo does. It's the only way to keep the price low. I understand you want a low price but realistically look at the time needed to make razors i don't see how it can be done. If your margin is only 40$ before taxes you just cannot pay wages let alone make a profit

I'm merely trying to contribute to this thought experiment. I think that the initial cost is a contributing factor to the reticence of beginners to pursue straight shaving. Other factors are there, of course. Is it feasible to get a sub $50 or $60 dollar razor? I can all but guarantee it. ZY and GD are under $15. Their quality is lower than more respected brands, but I have seen a number of posts about quality issues with T-I razors as well. This is a testament to high scale manufacturing. With enough quantity sold, you can pursue more dedicated manufacturing methods. Is it even possible to sell that many straight razors to reach quantities to justify these methods? I have no idea, but slightly doubt it. That alone puts a gigantic hole in this thought experiment. Not to mention getting someone with enough money to even get this thought off the ground. My father works for venture capitals and I doubt any of them would even give this business plan a thought before calling security.

However, Ralf Aust produces razors that are of a quality that I have not heard a negative comment yet. These are sold out of SRD in the US for ~$100 for the basic model. That includes shipping from Germany to the US and wages for workers in Germany. Where labor is typically more expensive than here in the US, not to even mention taxes. If one is able to increase the automated aspects of the manufacturing process and produce the razor in a country that has an average of lower manufacturing costs, you can drastically reduce the price.

This is all for a company making only 1 style of razor in an appropriate quality range for the cheapest price. The time aspect will be severely reduced from the superb works of art you and other custom manufacturers create.

I know a little something about it
There is no way I could ever see a $40-50 US straight being made and to be honest I think it's tough to keep the price in the $100-150 range and be profitable.
I think that is where people lose sight of things.

I think with price point it breaks down into US/UK ("western" countries) vs China / Pakistan. If you are going to source and produce the razor in any of the western countries you would probably need to be at or above $100. If you outsource part, or all, of the materials or process to much cheaper labor markets your can probably achieve a quality that would sell for $50.

I'm personally interested in an American made company, but understand the arguments for outsourcing.

Originally Posted by dinnermint

I'm merely trying to contribute to this thought experiment. I think that the initial cost is a contributing factor to the reticence of beginners to pursue straight shaving. Other factors are there, of course. Is it feasible to get a sub $50 or $60 dollar razor? I can all but guarantee it. ZY and GD are under $15. Their quality is lower than more respected brands, but I have seen a number of posts about quality issues with T-I razors as well. This is a testament to high scale manufacturing. With enough quantity sold, you can pursue more dedicated manufacturing methods. Is it even possible to sell that many straight razors to reach quantities to justify these methods? I have no idea, but slightly doubt it. That alone puts a gigantic hole in this thought experiment. Not to mention getting someone with enough money to even get this thought off the ground. My father works for venture capitals and I doubt any of them would even give this business plan a thought before calling security.

However, Ralf Aust produces razors that are of a quality that I have not heard a negative comment yet. These are sold out of SRD in the US for ~$100 for the basic model. That includes shipping from Germany to the US and wages for workers in Germany. Where labor is typically more expensive than here in the US, not to even mention taxes. If one is able to increase the automated aspects of the manufacturing process and produce the razor in a country that has an average of lower manufacturing costs, you can drastically reduce the price.

This is all for a company making only 1 style of razor in an appropriate quality range for the cheapest price. The time aspect will be severely reduced from the superb works of art you and other custom manufacturers create.

IMHO The part that doesn't work is the volume needed for it work. The # are just not going to be there, not even close, to may it work

Originally Posted by MattCB

I think with price point it breaks down into US/UK ("western" countries) vs China / Pakistan. If you are going to source and produce the razor in any of the western countries you would probably need to be at or above $100. If you outsource part, or all, of the materials or process to much cheaper labor markets your can probably achieve a quality that would sell for $50.

I'm personally interested in an American made company, but understand the arguments for outsourcing.

Out sourced production tend to get shot down.
I'm pretty sure someone already does/did that once. Basically had the razor made in China then honed and scaled them here.

Originally Posted by MileMarker60

IMHO The part that doesn't work is the volume needed for it work. The # are just not going to be there, not even close, to may it work

I mentioned my doubts about the feasibility in the post you quoted...

Aye. It's a business. If you do it fulltime and do nothing else and get wide distribution like Ralf Aust, you can make a living. And keep in mind Ralf Aust also starts with premade blanks. Anyone having to start with plain stock is never going to run a business with a sub 100$ razor no matter how basic the design. Suppose that you make 100$ profit on a razor. Starting with plain stock, it takes several hours to make a simple razor.

But that 100$ is only 100$ when the customer pays it.
Between that moment and the moment the money is 'yours', the taxman has dropped by.
And he knows words like VAT. Social security. Income tax. (yes those are 3 different things that need to be paid) and then there is also county tax. Zoning tax. Business surface square meter tax (no kidding). I think I also pay environment tax.

That 100$ quickly turns into 20 actual dollars that you can spend. For several hours work.
Oh wait. But you also need liability insurance and medical insurance.
I guess ramen noodles are on the menu

Dovo is the epitome of mass market razors that are western made and still decent quality. And they make in large volumes and use stamped blanks. Logically, any attempt to compete with dovo for much smaller quantities and at a lower pricepoint is doomed to failure when economic reality sets in.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Dovo is the epitome of mass market razors that are western made and still decent quality. And they make in large volumes and use stamped blanks. Logically, any attempt to compete with dovo for much smaller quantities and at a lower pricepoint is doomed to failure when economic reality sets in.

Plus all of their equipment was paid for when straight razors were in much higher demand. If they had to add startup costs in todays market I doubt they could be in business.

Originally Posted by MattCB

I have wanted to see someone create a USA based (or UK, Australia.. not China, Pakistan made) straight razor aimed at the beginning straight shaver. This would require a fairly low price point of around $100 - 120 dollars.

I think the thread has diverted from the original question a little - could it be done for $100-120? Yes, as a matter of fact, it is - the PortlandRazorCo sells their "the Sprite" razor for exactly $120, and I believe I heard when they first started it was an even $100.

The thread later diverted to make the price point $40-60... considering the amount of "hands-on" time PRC puts into each of their semi-custom razors and the cost-cutting methods already discussed at length in this thread I believe that yes, should one get the starting capital to buy the equipment and then be able to create the appropriate economy of scale, it would be possible. So the question becomes... is it possible to get the numbers? This is exactly what diverted the thread to the $40-60 range, stating maybe the lower price-point would bring the "cheapskates" (self-proclaimed, I'm not calling anyone names here) into the fold... What makes me believe that lowering the price point won't bring in the numbers is that it hasn't. As mentioned, several third-country razors, for example the Gold Dollar, routinely sell for $15 and this hasn't brought in large crowds of "cheapskates" into the straight-razor world... I know, of course, that the quality isn't there, but the fact is the vast majority of new buyers don't know that. They have no idea the Gold Dollars are poor quality and they still don't sell at the numbers it would require to produce a good quality, Western-made razor for 3-4x more $. So the issue, it would seem, isn't completely about how "cheap" we can get it, but more so about marketing and perceived value... making it "cool". I can tell you first hand that the "interest" is there. I teach at a University and when male students hear I shave with a straight-razor they almost unanimously say "I've thought about doing that/will do that someday, but I don't have the money right now" obviously intrigued by the "cool factor" from the gleam in their eye. This is especially pronounced among the "hipster" types, even the ones with long, untrimmed, often sparse-to-mangy-looking beards... obviously they're not interested in the shave itself and more in the "cool/hipster-y" vibe that retro things have attained right now. When female students hear I shave with a straight-razor, they are almost unanimously concerned about whether I cut myself and why I would take the risk - when I explain the fact that it turns out to be much cheaper (except for the various acquisition disorders I don't typically bring up) in the long run and that it provides a "zen" experience and forces me to slow down and appreciate my shave, they become very interested and think it would make a great gift for their boyfriend/fiance/brother/dad. So I think the interest is there, certainly among the college-age & young-adult crowd that right now is interested in "retro" stuff... what is necessary is the proper marketing and perceived value/coolness - maybe if Apple made a straight-razor? maybe it could show you your text messages while you shaved or you could voice-activate Siri with it.