Thread: If you were going to make a production razor...

I wonder if you could get mass production stamped blades made in China, with specific steel, touch them up and heat treat in not China and then finish grind them. I think the biggest problem with the Chinese razors is that they are not consistently heat treated or finish ground. I am taking that from their reputation and not personal experience. Stamping blanks I am guessing would require an insane and unattainable volume, to do so with new machines.

"Stamping out hollow blanks" sounds like bad juju to me.

I was thinking about this a few weeks ago. Really, I would like to something for 40-50 bucks. I would have and probably still would buy something in that price range without even thinking.

Grinding would have to be kept a minimum, any grinding is typically the most expensive operation. Grinding time can be reduced with some dedicated fixturing to simplify manual grinding and/or CNC grinding. Products my company makes are ground +/- 0.01mm over 500mm, so accurate machine grinding is feasible but all those parts are flat surfaces.

Water-jet is not always the cheapest solution, usually used for accuracy and good finishes or companies that want to be fancy with buzzwords for the sale/marketing department. Initial material removal for grinding operation may also be possible. One would have to do cost analysis of laser/plasma cutting and the time required to clean the blank versus water-jet. It would probably be smart to look at making a 2.5" edge for cost savings instead of the more common ~3". This will be even more important in economies of scale, since we're talking a mass produced razor. I'm emphasizing cost in this argument, not time. You could easily purchase thousands a day from a company that does this operations full-time and even though this is hypothetically for mass production, time would only truly be a factor if we were to have the actual machine and running at full capacity. Even if that was the case, honing would still be the greatest bottleneck IMO.

Heat treatment could be batch done, best to do in house for consistency and control.

CAD design would be exorbitantly easy, would take me a couple days with revisions and aesthetic changes.

I think the nail/pin idea for the scales is a good idea as well as plastic injection molding for scales. The mold is the most expensive part by far. If a company is found to already have a mold, prices would be dramatically lowered. CNC or 3d printed scales would be more expensive.

Honing is something that I am not sure about. It could be possible to create a fixture for a machine that does flat grinding to get the bevel set or close enough to make manual honing faster. I feel like improvements to this process would be a make/or break area.

Sorry for engineering out on you boys

Grinding would have to be kept a minimum, any grinding is typically the most expensive operation. Grinding time can be reduced with some dedicated fixturing to simplify manual grinding and/or CNC grinding. Products my company makes are ground +/- 0.01mm over 500mm, so accurate machine grinding is feasible but all those parts are flat surfaces.

- Based on this, would you shoot for offering a 1/4 grind razor, or even a "near" wedge? Less grinding would be required. I know quite a few custom/small batch makers are make 1/4 ground razors (PRC comes to mind).


Water-jet is not always the cheapest solution, usually used for accuracy and good finishes or companies that want to be fancy with buzzwords for the sale/marketing department. Initial material removal for grinding operation may also be possible. One would have to do cost analysis of laser/plasma cutting and the time required to clean the blank versus water-jet. It would probably be smart to look at making a 2.5" edge for cost savings instead of the more common ~3". This will be even more important in economies of scale, since we're talking a mass produced razor. I'm emphasizing cost in this argument, not time. You could easily purchase thousands a day from a company that does this operations full-time and even though this is hypothetically for mass production, time would only truly be a factor if we were to have the actual machine and running at full capacity. Even if that was the case, honing would still be the greatest bottleneck IMO.

- Would plasma cutting have any effect on the heat treatment / carbon issues on the edge of the blade? Maybe a secondary procedure to remove 1/16 of an inch (if it is an issue). Hypothetically, I could see a shop contracting this step out for time and monetary savings, at least at first.

Heat treatment could be batch done, best to do in house for consistency and control.

- Makes sense

CAD design would be exorbitantly easy, would take me a couple days with revisions and aesthetic changes.

- Agreed

I think the nail/pin idea for the scales is a good idea as well as plastic injection molding for scales. The mold is the most expensive part by far. If a company is found to already have a mold, prices would be dramatically lowered. CNC or 3d printed scales would be more expensive.

- From what I have read, the mold would be a one time cost to have made. So once up and running it would be pretty cheap per scale.

Honing is something that I am not sure about. It could be possible to create a fixture for a machine that does flat grinding to get the bevel set or close enough to make manual honing faster. I feel like improvements to this process would be a make/or break area.

- Off hand I feel this could possibly be the most time intensive area for a production line set up. I think some kind of flat grinding would greatly help reduce the time needed. I think larger "bench" sized hones and bench strops (or maybe a belt run strop) would help with this as well.

Sorry for engineering out on you boys

- This was a GREAT answer, thanks for moving the conversation forward

[QUOTE=MattCB;1628737]

- Based on this, would you shoot for offering a 1/4 grind razor, or even a "near" wedge? Less grinding would be required. I know quite a few custom/small batch makers are make 1/4 ground razors (PRC comes to mind).
I think that this would be ideal.

- Would plasma cutting have any effect on the heat treatment / carbon issues on the edge of the blade? Maybe a secondary procedure to remove 1/16 of an inch (if it is an issue). Hypothetically, I could see a shop contracting this step out for time and monetary savings, at least at first.
Plasma and laser cutting will put heat into the material. ~1/16th to 1/8th of material would be discolored, based on A36 steel that I have had cut with those methods. The depth of heat and it's issue with heat treating the steel is not something I am capable of answering. Those methods melt the material, so it is generating alot of heat. Probably removing the material would be best. This might be a pro for stamping or water-jet, depending on the cost savings of removing the heated material versus high initial cost and higher cost process.

- From what I have read, the mold would be a one time cost to have made. So once up and running it would be pretty cheap per scale.
True, but sourcing a current manufacturer with the mold would avoid this cost altogether. I had a manager that works in the plastic injection industry and a quick quote for a plas-inj mold is $500k to $1mil. Plus trouble shooting the heating/cooling of the plastic entering said mold. It is a simple design, so it shouldn't need to much trouble shooting.

- Off hand I feel this could possibly be the most time intensive area for a production line set up. I think some kind of flat grinding would greatly help reduce the time needed. I think larger "bench" sized hones and bench strops (or maybe a belt run strop) would help with this as well.
I agree completely.

True, but sourcing a current manufacturer with the mold would avoid this cost altogether. I had a manager that works in the plastic injection industry and a quick quote for a plas-inj mold is $500k to $1mil. Plus trouble shooting the heating/cooling of the plastic entering said mold. It is a simple design, so it shouldn't need to much trouble shooting.

- Take a look at this injection molding estimate calculator Injection Molding Rectangle with Raised Ends - Small Free Online Cost Estimate I picked a simple part similar (roughly) in size and complexity and ran through the calculator. I upped the finish factor and tolerances and picked an expensive plastic to use. Total cost for 20,000 pieces (10k sets of scales assuming both sides of scales are mirror images) is quoted at 22.5K, with 14K of that being the mold being created. The mold can be reused many more times. The more complex the part, the more expensive obviously.

Check out this as well, lots of options: http://www.wired.com/2013/01/protomold/

Why not a frameback? cut a blank with a good geometry, then attach a frame. The grinding would be minimal or no existant, decreasing cost. you'll be using less steel, again cost reduction. why not just order blanks from a solingen forge? you'll get a blank that needs minimal grinding. As for scales maybe something mild injected or 3d printed.

Originally Posted by MattCB

Total cost for 20,000 pieces (10k sets of scales assuming both sides of scales are mirror images) is quoted at 22.5K

Hey guys, first post but I felt compelled to weigh in on this. I suppose I should have joined long ago so hey it's about time!

About $20k is a reasonable figure for a small mold producing razor scales in this quantity. I saw a figure earlier of $500k to $1 million and that is absolutely absurd.

Source? Well, I am a full time injection mold designer at one of the top 5 quality moldmaking companies in the US. For legal reasons I can not disclose our customer base, however I can say we make several $500k+ molds per year, and this type of mold is made to run *millions* of very complex parts per year and last for 10+ years easily.

A small mold shop is totally different and can produce a small 4 cavity mold to run 20k-50k parts for much less, typically $5k to $30k depending on the part and quality desired. This would put the cost of the scales (roughly) less than $0.50 to produce, even down to pennies possibly. Of course, even if the consumer cost of the scales were $5, I doubt most startups could expect to sell the roughly 5,000 razors it would take just to break even on the mold! That's 14 razors sold, per day, for a whole year non-stop.

So that's just my $0.02 on the scales. As for the steel I can't accurately say, but I do believe if it could be reasonably done PRC is the best example we currently have.

Side note- if any entrepreneurial type out there were crazy enough to give this a go, I would be happy to design (not build, just design) a low-cost scale mold for FREE for the good of the wet shaving community.

Originally Posted by RezDog

I wonder if you could get mass production stamped blades made in China, with specific steel, touch them up and heat treat in not China and then finish grind them. I think the biggest problem with the Chinese razors is that they are not consistently heat treated or finish ground. I am taking that from their reputation and not personal experience. Stamping blanks I am guessing would require an insane and unattainable volume, to do so with new machines.

I think it's possible. China can turn out quality merchandise... you just have to be willing to pay for it. I think the hardest part (And what makes all of the Gold Dollars and others such a crap shoot) is the quality control in the heat treatment and grinding.

I saw a video of the Dovo factory that showed how they stamp thier blanks. I assume that the initial up front cost of such a machine would make it unattainable for most people/companies.

Well I think marketing is a big part also. There are tons of inexpensive vintage razors out there all cleaned up and shave ready.