Thread: If you were going to make a production razor...

That is also pretty annoying steel to grind and polish post HT. As in, I hate it with a vengeance. Its only redeeming quality is that it is absolutely impossible to stain with food even when left dirty overnight. It is also pretty expensive and with the extra time required to grind and polish, you'd be hard pressed to keep that price point.

200 pieces seems to be the magic number here in the US. But we are talking about "production" razors so that seems reasonable.

Originally Posted by MattCB

I think the hollow grinding machines would be a possibility, especially if you were contracting out as much of the process as possible. You would need quite a large order to get the costs down.

Well, we know that you can produce a 210mm chefs knife from AEB-L with Micarta scales on a small scale in the US and sell it for $65. Why couldn't you get a razor for under $100?

Originally Posted by CrownCork

I think your costs to mass produce a significant number of razors on something like that would put you out of the $100 market. Especially as a start-up. The machine time and tool costs would be extensive. Also from the specs could they grind as hollow as current razors are made? Then you would still have finishing, polishing, etching, honing, scale procurement, pinning, packaging and shipping. Most being manual labor.

Because it takes skill and time to make a razor which is geometrically correct in 3 dimensions, whereas any beginner can take a flat piece of sheet and make a kitchen knife in a short amount of time.
Especially if you have the metal in thin sheet form delivered in the correct width as well, or possibly even stamped out.

Bruno wrote everything correctly. If you make a knife, it is in any case will be cut, cut bad or good, but the knife can be used for other purposes. And if not razor shaves with comfortable, then you need to throw out the razor. To make it a razor, you need a lot of experience.

Another point to consider is that kitchen knives 'can' be finish ground completely before HT if you don't require a super thin edge. That means grinding / sanding when the steel is dead soft, HT, a quick trip on a buffer or wetgrinder, and you're done. With a razor, the tricky work is done after HT. And AEB is a ghastly steel to grind post HT, just like 52100. that is where a lot of skill is required and where a lot of time is spent. and then we don't even mention things like proper honing geometry, tang alignment (radial and axial) and a host of other things.

The only possibility is if suddenly 9/8 flat ground full wedge with a square point with cheap plastic scales and torx fasteners became the razor of choice for every man in the world. Don't see that happening

Are you talking about AEB-L? For the kind of razor that we are talking about, I can get a 26mm x 155mm x 5mm piece for $2.50 retail. That's is about the same price as I would pay for .187 thick O-1. If you were doing this in a semi-production setting, you would probably buy it in 600mm x 900mm sheets. As for difficulty polishing, in my limited experience, it is no worse than many simple steels at 62 Rc or so.

Originally Posted by Bruno

That is also pretty annoying steel to grind and polish post HT. As in, I hate it with a vengeance. Its only redeeming quality is that it is absolutely impossible to stain with food even when left dirty overnight. It is also pretty expensive and with the extra time required to grind and polish, you'd be hard pressed to keep that price point.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Another point to consider is that kitchen knives 'can' be finish ground completely before HT if you don't require a super thin edge. That means grinding / sanding when the steel is dead soft, HT, a quick trip on a buffer or wetgrinder, and you're done. With a razor, the tricky work is done after HT. And AEB is a ghastly steel to grind post HT, just like 52100. that is where a lot of skill is required and where a lot of time is spent. and then we don't even mention things like proper honing geometry, tang alignment (radial and axial) and a host of other things.

I have never heard of 52100 or AEB-L being ghastly to finish. As for kitchen knives, what use is one that doesn't have a thin edge? Most people that i have run across heat treat them before grinding because you don't run nearly the risk of a large piece of steel that thin warping in the quench. Sure if you want a VERY thick edge. like .02 inch, you could grind before HT, but who wants that? How thick do you leave the edge on razors when you grind them before HT?

Originally Posted by JDM61

Are you talking about AEB-L? For the kind of razor that we are talking about, I can get a 26mm x 155mm x 5mm piece for $2.50 retail. That's is about the same price as I would pay for .187 thick O-1. If you were doing this in a semi-production setting, you would probably buy it in 600mm x 900mm sheets. As for difficulty polishing, in my limited experience, it is no worse than many simple steels at 62 Rc or so.

I paid more. But let's ignore cost then. Have you made razors yet, and compared the time required to grind a proper razor compared to the time required for grinding a kitchen knife from a flat piece of stock?