Thread: If you were going to make a production razor...

Originally Posted by MileMarker60

Just a side note... I'm not sure I would attribute craft beer to hipsters..

It is entirely safe to attribute it to a lack of tradition, training, and skills (cf http://goo.gl/rosxht). It is to Bier what costume razors are to vintage razors: loud, loutish, and pseudo elitist.

Originally Posted by RobinK

It is entirely safe to attribute it to a lack of tradition, training, and skills (cf http://goo.gl/rosxht). It is to Bier what costume razors are to vintage razors: loud, loutish, and pseudo elitist.

To be fair, you'd classify everything that way if it didn't adhere to the German Reinheitsgebot (my apologies for the spelling mistakes).

MileMarker60: craft beer was definitely not started by hipsters, but they brought the industry the attention it needed to grow.

RobinK: You're right that a lot of craft brewers ignore tradition and are entirely inexperienced. I'm sure most of them don't care about Reinheitsgebot. But thanks to the craft brewing trend, many people now know about Reinheitsgebot and traditional European brewing styles. They got people to rediscover the history of brewing.

I should add that new traditions develop from innovations that disregard tradition. American whiskey was once considered a bastardized version of scotch. Now it has its own tradition that even the Scots admire. Perhaps the custom razor makers will also go down in history as pioneers of a new tradition.

I'm not saying that you ought to adore custom razor makers (or anyone else who breaks from an established tradition). I, too, am a purist when it comes to coffee. For me, coffee means coffee beans and water. All of the syrups and other additives ruin the flavor of the beans for me. But that doesn't mean anyone who drinks coffee that includes more than those two ingredients is wrong. They're just part of a different tradition. And I'm glad that they're out there trying to discover new ways to enjoy coffee, and I like how the custom razor makers are forging a path of their own. What they're doing now may become a remarkable tradition years later. Besides, the world would be a boring place if everyone rigidly adhered to a single tradition.

Originally Posted by Bruno

To be fair, you'd classify everything that way if it didn't adhere to the German Reinheitsgebot (my apologies for the spelling mistakes).

No spelling mistakes. Aliquid semper haeret...

But yes, there are subtle nuances between beers made by fully trained brewers, let alone Braumeister, and amateur efforts. Same as with razors.

Let me see if I can tease out some more opinions The experienced makers are pretty much saying it's possible but.... (insert quite a few large issues you have to deal with).

Would it make a difference if the price point was higher? Say $160 - $180, maybe $220 - $240? I'm still curious in regards to a production type razor that you could standardize and pump out at a good volume.

I would personally expect something a little more polished and refined for those price points.
Scales - better quality, maybe different colors, inlays?
Better stamping?
Blade etch / gold wash?

Originally Posted by MileMarker60

I could totally be wrong but I would guess they don't turn out anything close to 1k a day.
If they did, I bet they wouldn't have a shortage

I took a look at the video again. If you look at the bin being used to catch the razor blanks for the second press operation (where the excess is removed) you can see a few hundred in the bin. If you look at the rest of the video, they have to be turning out at least a few hundred per day. Just to pay the wages of the workers, utilities and the rest would require around that many.

Price is not the issue here. Infrastructure is. Obtaining high quality etching is a non issue in Germany, but a non starter in the US - unless you invest heavily in a local infrastructure.

But the thing is, at the price points you mention, you will be competing with Solingen manufacturers. No offense, but I doubt that anyone but a hardcore patriot would buy your razors stateside, let alone in Europe. I know quite a few Hart razors, and they are simply not as good as a Solingen razor that costs the same or less.

Originally Posted by MattCB

If you look at the rest of the video, they have to be turning out at least a few hundred per day. Just to pay the wages of the workers, utilities and the rest would require around that many.

Actually, more. But may I gently draw everyone's attention to the CNC robots used to produce the bottom end line of Dovo razors?

Originally Posted by MattCB

Total cost for 20,000 pieces (10k sets of scales assuming both sides of scales are mirror images) is quoted at 22.5K

Hey guys, first post but I felt compelled to weigh in on this. I suppose I should have joined long ago so hey it's about time!

About $20k is a reasonable figure for a small mold producing razor scales in this quantity. I saw a figure earlier of $500k to $1 million and that is absolutely absurd.

Source? Well, I am a full time injection mold designer at one of the top 5 quality moldmaking companies in the US. For legal reasons I can not disclose our customer base, however I can say we make several $500k+ molds per year, and this type of mold is made to run *millions* of very complex parts per year and last for 10+ years easily.

A small mold shop is totally different and can produce a small 4 cavity mold to run 20k-50k parts for much less, typically $5k to $30k depending on the part and quality desired. This would put the cost of the scales (roughly) less than $0.50 to produce, even down to pennies possibly. Of course, even if the consumer cost of the scales were $5, I doubt most startups could expect to sell the roughly 5,000 razors it would take just to break even on the mold! That's 14 razors sold, per day, for a whole year non-stop.

So that's just my $0.02 on the scales. As for the steel I can't accurately say, but I do believe if it could be reasonably done PRC is the best example we currently have.

Side note- if any entrepreneurial type out there were crazy enough to give this a go, I would be happy to design (not build, just design) a low-cost scale mold for FREE for the good of the wet shaving community.

Funny, as I'm starting to shave with straights again, I've been thinking the same question lately. The idea of going for a frameback sounds pretty good since it would solve the grinding problem.