Thread: The Great Razor Analysis Project

I have wondered about the temper and content of various razors myself. In the book Hatcher's Notebook a longtime ordinance officer General Julian Hatcher compiled notes on his observations made over the years. Among the topics was the heat treating of '03 Springfields. Some of them below serial # 800,000 were prone to failure and had in some cases caused serious injury to the shooter.

It was found that the workers responsible for the heat treatment relied on the color of the metal as it was being heated and cooled to determine when the correct temper had been reached. After further analysis it was found that depending on whether it was a sunny or an overcast day the temperatures of the metal being heat treated could vary up to 300 degrees using the eyeball method. Afterwards the Armory began using pyrometers and the problem was solved.

I bring this up because I am assuming that the razorsmiths in the 1800s probably tempered by eye so the results will probably vary whereas once pyrometers were introduced tempering would have been more consistent.

Traditional Japanese forging is still done like that.
When tamahagane is smelted, the tatara master is awake for 3 days, tending the fire, looking at the color and listening to the sound of the fire raging inside.

And I seem to remember Mike Blue saying that he can control the smelting process with an incredible accuracy.

When swords are heat treated, the same applies: the smith heats the blade and judges the color to determine when the blade is ready for quenching.
Of course this takes a lifetime of experience, but it is possible.

Guys,

Here's what I'm thinking right now. I'd like to collect as many samples as possible for analysis, although I'm not sure how many Tim and my local guys will be willing to do. I'm thinking maybe 50 or so, hopefully with several samples of the major brands.

If you're willing to send me some blades, send me an e-mail through the forum. My computer is dead, so PM access will be spotty. I can compile the e-mail addresses and send everyone my mailing address.

Thanks for volunteering! I'm particularly excited about the more exotic razors.

Rust isn't a problem, by the way. We're going to break the blades and then grind them flat for Rockwell testing. I'll clean up the samples that will be vaporized in the chemical testing.

Josh

Perhaps it would be a good idea to maintain a list of which brands / types you already have, so that people are not sending in several near identical razors.
That way you can also limit the number of razors without having to sacrifice in the variety.

Sounds like a good idea. I definitely want a selection of W&Bs, Ducks, Genco... That way we can get a baseline and not just go with one sample that could be an outlier.

Josh

Well, I just got in a Filarmonica 14 Doble Temple that I took a flyer on eBite - you know the drill, too high a starting price, bad pics, and I made an offer after the fact for it for $25...

Should have kept the $25.... Must have had a chip in the heel that was ground off, and it has a crack about an inch from the toe that extends up to the etching...

Where can I send this?

Awesome! I was contemplating the need for this when reading the Goldedge vs. Wonderedge debate. I certainly hope one of each make it in the lot!

Also, not sure if it's desired or not, but I could inquire at school about getting some Scanning Electron Microscope views. I don't know about all 50 or however many, but I can certainly check!

Originally Posted by Bruno

...When tamahagane is smelted, the tatara master is awake for 3 days, tending the fire, looking at the color and listening to the sound of the fire raging inside.
...
When swords are heat treated, the same applies: the smith heats the blade and judges the color to determine when the blade is ready for quenching.
Of course this takes a lifetime of experience, but it is possible.

Yes, it is, and not surprisingly the quenching of the sword requires a dark room. Some folks learn from their mistakes, some add another layer of technology and say the old way was no good.

After a while the experts really do look like they are not paying attention to any technology. I suspect that's why elements of magic still seem to play about the edges of what some smiths do.

Make sure all this information doesn't get lost Josh.

Originally Posted by Slant-Fan

I have wondered about the temper and content of various razors myself. In the book Hatcher's Notebook a longtime ordinance officer General Julian Hatcher compiled notes on his observations made over the years. Among the topics was the heat treating of '03 Springfields. Some of them below serial # 800,000 were prone to failure and had in some cases caused serious injury to the shooter.

It was found that the workers responsible for the heat treatment relied on the color of the metal as it was being heated and cooled to determine when the correct temper had been reached. After further analysis it was found that depending on whether it was a sunny or an overcast day the temperatures of the metal being heat treated could vary up to 300 degrees using the eyeball method. Afterwards the Armory began using pyrometers and the problem was solved.

I bring this up because I am assuming that the razorsmiths in the 1800s probably tempered by eye so the results will probably vary whereas once pyrometers were introduced tempering would have been more consistent.

This is a great point. I hadn't even thought about how companies judged the heat treating temperature. I do know from personal experience that even 100 degrees or so makes a huge difference. My forge has a hot spot in it that's not an issue for razors but does make it difficult to evenly heat blades longer than 3 inches or so. I've found that overheating part of the blade by even 100 degrees means it doesn't get as hard.

Trying to judge 100 degrees by eye would be very difficult. I have a hard time judging temperature by color, and I have a dark garage to work in. I can only imagine how the temperature would vary with different lighting conditions, not to mention multiple workers doing the eyeballing... Wow. Does anyone know when pyrometers were invented?

Edit: I'm seeing references to pyrometers as far back as 1775, so they probably were using them to treat razors. But I'm sure they varied in their accuracy.

Josh

Pity we couldn't test an Iwasaki, see if theres anything special that made them shave 1k customers. Other than the fact Japanese men & women are practically hairless.