Thread: The Great Razor Analysis Project

At least, that's what I'm hoping this will be.

We've all noticed the difference between a Sheffield and a Solingen, or between carbon and stainless. Well, I want to know WHY those razors feel so different and WHAT they're made of.

So here's what I'm proposing: I'd like to collect a bunch of junked razors from famous brands and have them analyzed. We could get Rockwell hardness readings on them, and maybe have a spectro-analysis (or whatever the technical term is) to determine the alloy content.

Having a breakdown of famous razors would be a nice starting point for guys like me. Makers could try to recreate some of the shaving experiences of yesteryear, or at least know how their blades stack up against the good vintage brands.

To pull this off, we need three things:
- A collection of blades that we can destroy
- Someone with access to a Rockwell machine
- Someone with access to a machine that will analyze the alloys in the metals

I'd be willing to organize things and prepare samples by cutting, grinding, etc.

Can anyone else help out in the other areas?

I should mention that this isn't a new idea; Robert Williams and Bill Ellis did something similar, but the results of that project have been lost. If Robert still has them on file, maybe he could post them again...

Josh

I think I might have something.
I have at least 1 that I would sacrifice for the greater good, if you finda someone with the right equipment.
I think Tim Zowada has a rockwell tester. Maybe you can drop him a line?

Josh,Robert Williams did it some years ago,at least I seem to remember him telling me about it.I sent a bunch of Sheffield razors out to be nitrided some years ago,and also got analysis done on a cast steel one,and a forged steel razor.I dont know where the paper work is,but will have some one look,and if I did it through my business they will be able to find it for me,and i will send it to you.Best regards Gary

Gary,

That would be great. The more data we can gather, the better.

I'm going to try to get Robert to drop by as well...

Josh

I can tell you what I found out from a metallurgist testing three different razors.

Here were the razors and results. All three were low alloy straight steels.

Wade and Butcher hollow ground 6/8. Hardness 58/59. It had some retained austenite and improved 1 point after cryo treating. The steel was a straight steel with no significant alloys.

Case razor. Being one of the better American razors, I thought it would make for a good test. This had a good heat treat and temper tested 60/61 hrc and had a fine grain. It had very little retained austenite.

Puma. This was the best of the three coming in at 61/62 hrc with a very fine grain.


For all intents and purposes, they were pretty much the same steel with a carbon content of around 1 percent. The differences seemed to be in the quality of the heat treatment, which is why I find some W&B razors to be outstanding and some just so-so and I belive this is because of the variation in heat treatment. the primary difference in feel aside from that between the razors seem may be more attributed to the grind and hardness than anything else. This shouldn't be surprising because what it takes to make an excellent blade is a very good grind at the right bevel for the heat treatment and hardness - and, of course, the quality of the heat treatment.

I've come to the opinion that high carbon steel is made best when heat treated one blade at a time with careful attention to detail, temperature, quench time... i.e. individually processing the steel to get as thorough a conversion to martensite as possible with the least possible stress to the blade.

I don't have any junk razors, but if you continue with the testing and get the kind of data that needs analysis, I'll happily donate my statistical expertise to help tease out trends etc between the different brands/makers/areas etc.

James.

I had my Chronik tested at a local lab that specializes in material failure analysis, and it came out at 60 rockwell. While chatting with the owner of the lab he mentioned that he had his grandfathers W&B and Wostenholm razors and he had tested them years ago out of curiosity and they were 57 and 59. This lab was capable of doing the alloy composition analysis, but I didn't bother with the Chronik since it leaves a scar on the steel and the only thing special about this razor is its rarity.

Robert, who did the cryo treat on that WB?

I've heard of guys doing it themselves with dry ice and acetone, can you speculate on the validity of such a method?

Won't something like this possibly drive up razor prices in todays market?

I kinda see that people who lurk on forums like this might use the analysis to slap an extra 0 on their price or what have you.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea, just thinking out loud again.

I have a shot Gotta beyond repair if you want that for your project.

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

Won't something like this possibly drive up razor prices in todays market?

I kinda see that people who lurk on forums like this might use the analysis to slap an extra 0 on their price or what have you.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea, just thinking out loud again.

I have a shot Gotta beyond repair if you want that for your project.

Who knows but on the upside: sharing information freely can never be bad for the community