Thread: Ironclad Shave Ready Tests... or Not!

Stating the question another way, and posing the question to you...

You own a razor sharpening business, and give a pile of straights to a new employee to sharpen. (They don't even use straight razors.) You tell them how to sharpen the blades, and also tell them how to check the acceptability of the edge.

So, what did you tell them when you told them how to check the acceptability of the edge?

(I think the above thought experiment is a good one, for it aptly recreates the situation experienced by new users.)

Hoglahoo...

I do have a shave ready blade from Lynn, and that has been invaluable. But, not everyone has a shave ready blade. Even if they did, after it gets dull and they go back to self-sharpening, how to know the resharpened blade is up to "Lynn standards"?

You also said...

I don't think there is any way for a newcomer to know
a razor is shave ready unless they have a standard
in hand to compare to.

And, if that is the way it is, I can certainly accept that. But, hopefully, there are ways to test a blade in a way that is applicable by all, and especially newcomers.

Again...

(1) HHT, (2) Edge straight, and (3) sides of edge smooth. If these three tests, which are fairly straightforward (with a microscope for #2 & #3), are passed can we state that we have or are quite close to having a shave ready edge?

Originally Posted by LarryAndro

So, what did you tell them when you told them how to check the acceptability of the edge?

I told them to learn how to shave with a Lynn-honed razor first and then resume their honing lessons

There is no adequate substitute for a shave-testable standard to compare with

Originally Posted by LarryAndro

(1) HHT, (2) Edge straight, and (3) sides of edge smooth. If these three tests, which are fairly straightforward (with a microscope for #2 & #3), are passed can we state that we have or are quite close to having a shave ready edge?

Not at all. I've shaved with very irritable razors that have passed those tests. They were technically shave ready, but terrible shavers. With some troubleshooting, they ended up being good shavers, but I've also got great razors that don't pass the HHT and have scratchy edges - since a good shave is based on feel, it's going to be tough to find any test other than a shave test which will be a reliable indicator of a good shaving razor

Here lies the whole problem

THERE IS NO Reliable test, that has always been a problem...

All those tests (TNT TPT AHT HHT) are for people that hone razors, and you develop them as your honing skills progress .. Hone ,test, shave, remember, repeat....

Honestly we are not keeping some big secret from you, there just isn't one that works for everybody...

IE:
I know that if a HHT works a certain way with my wifes baby fine hair that 99% of the time I have a shave ready blade.. My hair??? it don't count..

Sooooo what good does that do you????? NONE..

Now do you see the problem????

From above, Hoglahoo said...

"I've shaved with very irritable razors that have passed those tests. They were technically shave ready, but terrible shavers."

So, in those instances, what types of things were still wrong with the blade?

GSSIxGun said...

"I know that if a HHT works a certain way with my wifes baby fine hair that 99% of the time I have a shave ready blade."

Ah! Market her hair. Retire early...

It is hard for me to believe that the shave ready edge cannot be somewhat determined quantitatively. On the other hand, what is a newbie like me doing arguing with others who have been at this much longer? Give me the boot!

Originally Posted by LarryAndro

It is hard for me to believe that the shave ready edge cannot be somewhat determined quantitatively.

You might be able to approximate. But there are too many variables in straight razor shaving to come up with a qualitative determinant.

Originally Posted by LarryAndro

From above, Hoglahoo said...

"I've shaved with very irritable razors that have passed those tests. They were technically shave ready, but terrible shavers."

So, in those instances, what types of things were still wrong with the blade?

I don't know Maybe there was a wire edge I couldn't find. Or maybe the bevel angle wasn't 17 degrees. I don't have near enough honings under my belt to understand why a razor that looks good does not always perform. I think it's like a golf swing. It can look really good on tape and yet put it on the golf course and it will miss the ball completely. Then you can look at someone who has a terrible looking swing but plays good golf - maybe there are too many unknown variables at work? I don't know.

But when I get a razor like that (looks good but doesn't shave well), I strop the razor and shave test. Then strop more and shave test. If I need to, I will use a finishing hone. If that is not enough, I will drop back to a coarser hone and try again.

Others might have different approaches, but it is always the shave test which lets me know the razor is ready to go.

Originally Posted by LarryAndro

It is hard for me to believe that the shave ready edge cannot be somewhat determined quantitatively. On the other hand, what is a newbie like me doing arguing with others who have been at this much longer? Give me the boot!

Now I never said we could not determine that, I said you couldn't determine that from "OUR" tests....
I can tell you in an instant if a razor of mine is shave ready, My razor, My test...

I can probably tell if yer razor is shave ready too, but not quite with the same exactness...

There is no substitute for experience.

Many business's have thier own "Quality Control" methods so if your really into it you could do some digging and find out from some business's on what "thier" standards are some may differ than others.If your purchasing from a seller (ie.ebay etc...) then you are going by thier means of a "quality control"method which would be to thier spec of a "shave ready" SR so I quess that would bring gssixgun post into the light

Originally Posted by LarryAndro

Stating the question another way, and posing the question to you...

You own a razor sharpening business, and give a pile of straights to a new employee to sharpen. (They don't even use straight razors.) You tell them how to sharpen the blades, and also tell them how to check the acceptability of the edge.

So, what did you tell them when you told them how to check the acceptability of the edge?

(I think the above thought experiment is a good one, for it aptly recreates the situation experienced by new users.)

I appreciate everyone's replies. And, I get the main point being made, which is that this is a skill (maybe, like flying a plane) which can't be completely reduced to a formula. Too many variables!

In my sharpening, I have moved from clueless to being able to create shave ready edges. I recognize the skill required and the difficulty in defining every aspect of sharpening. Nonetheless, it seems to me that newbies could be given better help than we normally do.

Check back with me in a year. I'll then admit how naive I was! But, again, thanks for dialogging with me.