Thread: Ironclad Shave Ready Tests... or Not!

Originally Posted by LarryAndro

Nonetheless, it seems to me that newbies could be given better help than we normally do.

Well, that's what the Wiki is for. If you can come up with a better alternative, more power to you. I tried, but could not.

Originally Posted by LarryAndro

* pass the hanging hair test, and
* with an edge that is even with no defects, and
* with the honed and polished sides of the blade being
smooth and free of scratches and striations

you have a shave ready razor?

I have a George W & Sons pipe razor that would pass all these tests but when I shaved with it, it left some razor burn my other razors don't. After going back to the hones (down to 8K up to 16K) it did fine. As you progress, you'll become more accustom to the "feel" of the razor. It's just like the shave there is a learning curve and there is no easy Fast way around it. We are so use to almost instant everything it chaps us when we must wait for anything. Sometimes it's rough to be patient but in the end it's worth it.

Originally Posted by LarryAndro

I appreciate everyone's replies. And, I get the main point being made, which is that this is a skill (maybe, like flying a plane) which can't be completely reduced to a formula. Too many variables!

In my sharpening, I have moved from clueless to being able to create shave ready edges. I recognize the skill required and the difficulty in defining every aspect of sharpening. Nonetheless, it seems to me that newbies could be given better help than we normally do.

Check back with me in a year. I'll then admit how naive I was! But, again, thanks for dialogging with me.

Good question and I understand the frustration with all of the answers being 'the shave test is the only way to determine if the blade is shave ready"m but I have to agree with them.

Straight shaving is a lot of little things that add up to a great shave and honing is only one of them, but without a good edge all the rest is almost useless to achieve a goof shave.

If you read through the newbie posts over the past year or so most of us recommend that the newbie get the blade progessionally honed. That is the starting point! I believe, by your replies to our answers, that you are trying to eat the whole elephant in one bite.

A more complete answer to your question as a newbie would be:

"Get a professionally honed razor or two and learn to shave with it/them before trying to hone a razor yourself."

If you can't shave with it properly you will never know if your honing is any good. I'm sure every honemister has had more than a few complaints from newbies receiving their freshly honed blades complain that the HHT isn't working or the shave is terrible. How would these people ever know if their honing was good or not.

I understand how anxious some newbies are to get into honing. Although SRP has a Basic and Advanced Honing forum, honing should be considered an ADVANCED level of straight razor shaving.

Hope this answers you question better.

As to me hiring someone to hone straight razors that doesn't use them, they wouldn't get the job. Think about it.

Randy was at a SRP meetup and had honed a razor. He was running the edge over hair on his arm without touching the skin and the hair was popping and falling like rain. Another member watched and told Randy that he had never been able to do that as the hair on his arm was so fine.

Randy gave him the razor and sure enough it just brushed the hairs aside and didn't cut a one. So we don't all have the same coarseness or fineness of hair. If we did that might be an interesting test that all of us could use to see if a razor was HHT ready.

The TPT and hair popping on my arm used to be my bench marks for whether a razor was shave ready off of the hone. After stropping if it would cut hanging hair all the better. Some would and some wouldn't. Now I don't bother with that very much.

I use the TPT mostly off of the hone and just touch hair on my arm without popping it. If the razor is sharp I feel it catch the hair. No need to pop it. I got tired of walking around with a bald left arm and partially bald legs. Lately if it feels sharp to my thumb I just shave. If it needs more work I go back to the hones until I feel like I've got it where I want it.

In response to a recent post, I do have a Lynn Abrams honed blade. It has been very useful comparing his edge to mine.

Truthfully, I am not frustrated. Over the last two months, I've slowly improved my sharpening. Over the last two weeks, even though I am far from expert, I am consistently getting good shaves with my blades.

I am a teacher at heart, and have been mulling my experience and the little and big lessons along the way. While doing so, I am trying to distill my experience into something useful for other new shavers. It still seems to me as if we should be offering new straight razor users something more in the area of sharpening. Or, maybe not something more as much as a better bundling and presentation of the information.

As an aside, I am going to take the quasi-challenge from an earlier post, (even though it wasn't really stated as a challenge, I am taking it as one), and will review some of the wiki materials with an eye for improvements.

Back to the topic...

ENUF2 said...

Originally Posted by ENUF2

I have a George W & Sons pipe razor that would pass all these tests but when I shaved with it, it left some razor burn my other razors don't. After going back to the hones (down to 8K up to 16K) it did fine.

This is a good example of good information, but of analysis that seems to stop prematurely short. Speaking to everyone here, and not just ENUF2, why did going back to the hones fix the problem? (I know you don't have ENUF2's razor, so...) What are the range of reasons why an edge might be sharp, straight and smooth and still not shave right? I don't believe in black magic, which means that there was a reason(s) for the failure.

In my short experience, the most likely causes for razor burn are edges that are dull, not straight or not smooth. When I started using the Radio Shack 100x microscope, and fixed the Dull/Straight/Smooth problems, the razor burn disappeared. Are their other causes? Can these causes be detected by inspection or testing of some type? Then it moves out of the black magic category.

Enough rambling...

I am working on getting the TPT to the point its useful to me because it can be done in almost every situation. I hone, I check the TPT. I strop on the linen, I do it again. I strop on the leather, I check. At the end of my shave, I check then do some passes on the linen and check again.

My goal is to become competent with this one test in a variety of situations rather than using all 3 and getting confused by the conflicting results. get one down and use that to calibrate the others.

Neat thread - I'd been thinking of the very same thing recently. I did some digging and found an objective, quantitative, non-shaving method that I believe can reliably determine if a blade is sharp enough to shave with.

(Note I did not say "smooth enough".)

More specifically, I think this test could determine, for example, whether a blade had been adequately sharpened to a 4k, 8k, or 16k level - without any shaving of hair, microscopy, or touching the blade à la the TPT. This test shouldn't require exotic materials or apparatuses, shouldn't damage the edge, and ought to be simple enough for anyone to do regardless of shaving experience.

Thing is, I'm not gonna talk about particulars until I really get it ironed out, so this is just a big fat tease because I saw this thread and couldn't resist.

Northpaw, you are an evil person...

I have to agree that having a standard to compare to is the only way to go. I was disappointed in my shaving results at first, thinking I had to be doing something wrong. Then I sent off one of my razors to a honemeister and found out what it should really be like. Buying from Lynn was a good choice.

Long time ago there was a thread on the HHT. A couple of members who haven't been around for ages were always posting in the honing forums and gave me the impression that they were honemiesters posted that if a razor wouldn't pass HHT it wouldn't shave worth a darn.

At that time on SRP there were debates on taping the spine or not, x stroke on a 3" hone or straight across and on whether the HHT was a prerequisite to a good shave. Each of these controversies had their advocates on either side.

So you acquire razors and you hone them and discover which side of the fence you're on with these things. I have found that I don't need to have a razor pass HHT for me to get a bbs irritation free two pass shave. YMMV. If it was the other way around I would say so. For another individual it may well be the other way around.

Based on my experience I think the x pattern is the only way to go and I am playing around with not taping some razors to decide whether I prefer tape or no tape. Since starting out honing on a regular basis I've been taping all spines but I'm rethinking that issue. The jury is still out on that one. Whatever tests we use if we are getting consistent results .... and a close and smooth shave as a result it is working.