Thread: wife wont let me shave!!!!

Politics aside ...

When my wife thinks of me approaching certain parts of her body, I don't want her to feel fear or anxiety. Trust is good for our relationship, and it also has certain practical advantages.

I'll let her decide if and when she wants something like this. I won't push anything on her if it might cause her to feel anxious.

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

Most of the gentlemen here are of an older generation. Most of you were raised with the subtle idea that it is ok to try to change the wishes of women to fit your own.

I think that is quite an assumption to make. My understanding is that the members of this forum span a wide range of ages and upbringings. I myself am 23, my parents divorced when I was about 6 and I lived with my mom. My mom is a strong advocate of women's rights; since I was young, it was one of the many topics she and I discussed openly. I learned all about the rights of women, was brought up to see them as equals, and continue to hold that belief. I know for a fact that your assumptions do not apply to me.

Since the time I started with straights, I have been in serious relationships with two women, and believe me when I say it, while in a relationship, I care more about my partner's happiness than my own. If you really don't want to take my word for it, ask JoeD or CarrieM; they've said it about me of their own free will. I asked both of the women I dated if I could shave their legs. The answer was not yes the first time, but that didn't stop me from asking again. If you choose to view this as me attempting to exert my will over either of them or influence their decisions in a way that is male-dominant, I have to tell you that you are mistaken. In much the same way, when a girlfriend tells me to... I don't know, wear a certain scent for example, they are not exerting their will over me or influencing my decisions in a domineering way. If it was something to the point where they seriously felt compelled to bow to my requests or I to theirs, then you may be right, but even repeated asking does not necessarily mean this will happen.

In relationships, as in all things, there is a context. When it comes to my own personal examples, you know nothing about these women, me, or our relationships. Therefore, you are making very large assumptions. I have to say, if I was in the OP's position, I would be offended by your post. I can see how any male could be mildly offended by the blanket statements you have made about males in your posts. By the way, I can also see how females might be mildly offended, because I could see someone reading your posts as you saying that whenever a female complies to a male's requests, she is bowing to his will and being subservient. I'm not saying that this is what you mean, merely that this is one way your posts could be interpreted. As a parallel statement, you interpreted the OP's post in one way out of several possible ways.

When it comes to posts about our personal lives, I think it is very important to suspend our own biases and judgments unless we are positive that we fully understand every aspect of the poster's situation. And, to be honest, I don't think that one can fully understand every aspect of anyone else's situation, so I think it's best to leave our biases and judgments at the login screen. I mean at the door.

Firstly to Salzach - I think this conversation has taken a bit of a life of its own! I want to be clear that as we're going along, less and less of this is directed *at* you - it's an issue of its own I suppose.

Holli4Pirating - These are why I say things like "most." And it's true.

I'm of your generation. But you're well aware, I'm sure, that you and I are vastly outnumbered by the 40+ here.

Society affects us whether we want it to or not. I stated some very obvious examples of that, in the negative, for our generation, just as much as theirs. Some of us it affects more than others.

I do think there is a distinct difference between previous examples of leaving the toilet seat down, or your example of wearing certain scents, and allowing razor-sharp objects on your skin, no matter who is weilding them.

I am someone with boundary issues. Perhaps this colors my view. What also may color my view is that I know lots of women who also have boundary issues. More often than not, despite the fact that I know this, their partners don't.

I must say that the thing which set me in the direction of thinking I took, more than anything, was the title. What I got when I clicked on it was not at all how it was phrased in the header. Things like this happen off the cuff all the time - I understand that. But for me it set the tone.

I don't really think pointing out things one may not have considered is offensive. I have moments every day where immediately after the fact of X event, I realize there was something I may not have considered.

Boundary issues, almost always silent, and almost always frightening, are one such consideration that should be factored into a situation where you are asking to do something potentially dangerous to a loved one.

Again, my bias does color this. I am someone who must think an extrordinary amount about everything I say and do, for various reasons. When I say "no" to something, that is the final answer. And it is almost always given after much though.

I say "no" seldom. Usually it is "let me think about that," or "perhaps if we can compromise on X."

But when I say it, it is final. And my loved ones know that arguing that point with me is likely to make me feel harassed.

I know many women like that. I know many people in general like that. I am one of the very few who openly admits that vulnerability. I do so to prevent avoidable storms - I don't want a loved one to find that out the hard way.

And perhaps because of the slant of this conversation, I may have neglected to openly acknowledge (though I certain do internally) that this problem is very real both ways. Men, too, often deal with it silently. The issues from which is stems are often different, but the responce, and the feelings, are the same.

I am friends with, and have been in relationships with, many men who are never one to bang on a point, and who are such tremendous empaths and just generally kind and sensitive people that they wouldn't even dare ask.

That is the other extreme of the scale - and not one that I am advocating as any more "right" than any other.

I don't make assumptions about men vs. women. I am the last person on earth who would try to pigeon hole someone because of what chromosomes they have in their DNA. Apart from what's between your legs, and a few muscular/sensory differences, it's utterly meaningless.

More than anything, we have personalities. There is always a "dominant" partner. Sometimes they're the XX, sometimes they're the XY.

Dominance is also measured in different ways. But when it comes to confrontation (not aggressive - just any point-blank interaction) between partners who grew up with certain ideals around them, the trend is for that dominance to be slanted towards the male partner. It isn't always. But very often it is, and very often there is a background idea somewhere in there that they should be able to change the other's mind.

But if you are a dominant partner, it is all the more important you carefully weigh the reactions AND the words of your partner because you are likely to miss something. As someone who frequently finds myself as a dominant partner, I have had this problem often - it is one I work tirelessly to correct.

But the majority of people did not escape society unscathed, and even those of us who actively differ from it often take pages from some other group's book. That's just how it is. It is a long road to total self-creation. One which almost no one ever reaches the end of.

As usual, I find it is somewhere in a shade of gray. No one is self-made. No one who tries to say they are a self-made creature is being honest with themselves - probably because they don't want to be associated with some of the culture they grew up in.

I'm someone who bangs on and on about being an individual - and I certainly haven't escaped it, as much as I wish I could.

Like I said, I think the men in general here are, despite their old-time shared passion, a rather forward-thinking group, regardless of their age.

But I do percieve the subtle difference in the type of forward-thinking that exists in, say, you, vs. someone that's 30 or 40 years your senior. I can see the process of cohesion and compromise that has had to take place in an older person in order for them to deviate from the less equality-based society they were born into. I can see it in how they speak, write, or the expression on their face. It's an on-going struggle to bring two worlds into harmony with each other, when the person believes a little bit of both.

A process mostly absent in you. And in most people around our age. For us, the same process happens in reverse, when we go to something like straight shaving, and try to honor the virtue of patience and skill - things all but lost in the do-it-now generation where you press a button for a latte and have pre-assembled text messages in your cell, up to and including "I love you."

I have often had to forgive an older person for saying something I found to be sexist towards me. I do this because I can sense that they don't mean it to be, but rather, they are struggling to align two different ideas in the minds, and sometimes the words just come out a little bit wrong.

I have even had to do that on this forum.

It doesn't upset me - I know it's meant with the best of intent. But it never hurts to make yourself a little clearer. And if you can understand the possible context of what you're saying, it's easier to e clear.

I don't think it's possible to improve as a person without considering all aspects of your own fault - whether they are organic to you, caused by your upbringing, society, or genetic.

Whether or not this particular fault applies to Salzach is for him to weigh. I certainly don't know. But it's somethig to think about, and from the perspective of this lady, I would be very much upset to be contiually asked to do something that was upsetting to me by someone I loved. Maybe his wife is different. I don't know. But there's no harm in considering it.

With all due respect, you are largely repeating yourself as opposed to actually responding to what I have written. I hear you saying you have your biases and your reasons for having them, but I wonder to what extent you have tried to read my post, or Salzch's original post, or any other post without having your biases in the front of your mind.

Also, you say you don't make assumptions about men vs women, but your posts are riddled with such assumptions. You assume most men and women are shaped to be a certain way by the way they are raised and the society they are raised in, and you make assumptions about the way in which men and women tend to be shaped. You assume men are more likely to be the dominate partner. You also assume most forum members fit into a certain age group and/or were brought up in a certain society. And that's just a few from your last post.

By the way, I do believe there was a poll asking members their age, and I do not think most members are in their 40's. I could be mistaken, but I believe the average age is younger than that.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/gener...36108-age.html
http://straightrazorpalace.com/gener...w-old-you.html

The second one is actually a poll, and you can see the results. Granted, not everyone voted, but the average age looks to be, as I thought, late 20's to early 30's.

I am reading what your saying. But I am also unsure if you're reading all of what I said - this is focused on women because that's the topic. But I did clearly state this is a problem for everyone, and a problem with how we all understand each other.

I just don't think it's realistic to say society has nothing to do with it.

Otherwise, why do we shave, and pick what we do and don't shave? Why don't most men wear skirts? Why do women tend to have longer hair cuts than men? Why are there all of these obvious give-away's to a person's assigned gender? And why, when they are disregarded, do we have a harder time identifying people? And why, when we can't identify people, do we try so hard to figure it out?

Those specific examples apply mostly to Western culture, but most cultures have such delineations.

Some people do to choose to ignore them, to lesser of greater extents. I do, to an extent. But I get a lot of kooky comments because of it.

Some cultures don't have as many gender rules. They tend to experience less problems with gender equality. Some languages don't have gender-specific pronouns. They also experience fewer issues.

According to poll, it's a pretty good bell-curve on either side of the 30's. Perhaps I was mislead by the most frequent posters I see. Perhaps this is because that's where most of the experience lies.

I don't make assumptions based on sex. I make assumptions based on where I am. But most people do choose to align with the gender assigned to their sex and a lot of the stuff that goes with it. For many people that's a totally comfortable place to be. For others less so. And it gets all tangled in complex issues of freedom of society through the ages.

I'd like to deny that to high heaven, but I can't look at the world I see around me and do so.

I used to, before I started traveling alone. And eventually I had to admit to myself that I face problems a man wouldn't face in choosing to do so, regardless of how I present myself, and who I actually am. Because not admitting it was not only naive, but directly dangerous to my well-being.

When I meet someone, as in a real interaction, it's a clean slate (I must admit that I'm very on-guard towards people passing around my periphery). But those first 5 minutes of interaction set how you will see someone forever in over 80% of cases (psychology when you have no plans to major in it still has its uses!).

Maybe I've gotten too far into accepting the reality I see around me, because for so long that's been my only focus.. That's a distinct possibility.

It is distinctly possible I don't give people enough of a fair shot.

But, when you are entirely focused on the immediate reality of the world... this is what it looks like. And it's not fair, and it's not pretty. And maybe I should focus less on it. But it's something everyone should be aware of.

holli, Mistress, I think you're talking past each other, but I think you're both talking sense.

The OP asks "How can I convince her to let me shave her?" Maybe he can, maybe he can't, it's her decision, and trying too hard can backfire even if he does have a chance. He's welcome to ask, she's welcome to say no, he can ask again. This is not the kind of thing that can be forced. Women often do feel forced, and that's yucky.

I think you both agree on these things, don't you?


Mistress: here's something from the guy's perspective. We sometimes feel like women can be offended just because we ask. It sure would be nice to know what a woman wants ahead of time, and we just don't have that guarantee. Asking and being rejected doesn't feel good, especially if the woman gets upset. I don't think there's any solution to that, but I also think it partly explains some of the feelings the guys are expressing.

Originally Posted by Bootstrap

Mistress: here's something from the guy's perspective. We sometimes feel like women can be offended just because we ask. It sure would be nice to know what a woman wants ahead of time, and we just don't have that guarantee. Asking and being rejected doesn't feel good, especially if the woman gets upset. I don't think there's any solution to that, but I also think it partly explains some of the feelings the guys are expressing.

Yes, that's a pretty common and pretty serious issue in communication. One which I don't know the answer. Living in such a way as to be so easily set off is an easy thing to become, depending on your life experiences, and especially as we get older, but a very difficult way to love another.

I was thinking about this the other night for quite a while. It is such a huge rabbit hole to jump down, and it's confusing for everyone.

I see that this is something which should change - because a person who reacts this way is often not internally healthy, and a person who doesn't understand *why* someone reacts that way often lives in confusion and anxiety.

But how? I really don't know. It's a very complicated problem.

My views since the other night are shifting, as they often do when I look at a problem from a different position.

This discussion really has absolutely nothing to do with me as I live alone and get to shave what ever and where ever I choose to shave as all the parts that might get razored are mine and mine alone. However, if we pay attention to the title of the first post, "(my) wife won't let me shave!!!!" and pay further attention to its following comments, the only reasonable resolution would be for the original poster to shut up, settle down, and grow a beard.

Problem solved...

or is it

I think women belong in the kitchen... LOL

Come on seriously, let's try to see this guy just wants to get his wife or gf to let him shave her.

I think it wont happen, my wife knows Im very agile with my razors, but I get her fear of letting me, and quite frankly it's not like shes going to pick up my straights and run with it, although I have convinced her to use a brush and she loves MWF, as do I, so when I buy it now shes not saying a word.

I think that's our half way point for her and I, I got her to use a DE for awhile but she cut her delicate ankle and since then no more, and again I don't blame her.

So I say if she balks dont push it, women will come at their own speed to this if they feel so inclined, a woman doesnt like to be pushed into those kind of things, save that stuff for the bedroom.

Oh and I'm not 40+ I just turned 35 but I look and act much younger, if it's not obvious lol.

Cheers
David

Originally Posted by salazch

Ok ladies I need some help. I really want my wife to experience the wonders od a stra8 razor, but she is terrified of the blade cutting her. She is afraid of getting cut, even afraid of a safery razor. She won't use the stra8 herself. How can I convince her to let me shave her? Keep in mind that all I want to show her is a an area of only a couple square inches.

I can think of a couple of approaches off the top of my head...


Buttering Up

See what magazines she reads and go grab the newest one (or get her a book by her favorite author). After you've cooked dinner and cleaned the kitchen, slip away and start a bubble bath. When it's ready, ask her if she'd like a bubble bath to go with a glass of wine and (insert favorite reading material here). Add some relaxing music, if you can.

If you make it this far without her asking what you're up to, then she thinks the world of you already, haha. If she does ask, just grin and say "Maybe I'm buttering you up" - but don't say for what. Anyway, if all is going according to plan, stick your head in the bathroom after 15 minutes or so and ask if you can sit with her. Without begging or pleading, let her know that it would make you really, really happy if she'd allow you to shave three inches of one lovely leg. Don't wave the razor around while you're saying this.

If she says no, don't ask why or pout, just lightly change the subject. Remember that you're doing these nice things for her because she's special - not solely because you're dying to shave her legs. This part is crucial, because the more you both believe it, the more likely it is that she'll say yes.


Turnabout

For what it's worth, this is the route I took, mostly by accident. My wife had used a DE, but she told a friend once that she'd never let me near her with a straight razor. This was pretty soon after I took up the practice myself. I didn't ask to shave her with a straight after hearing her say that, but one day I called her to the bathroom to help shave the back of my neck. I'd already done the sides as far back as I could see, so there I was, standing in front of the mirror with a mohawk down the back of my neck, clearly helpless. I told her briefly how to do it, then let her at it. Here's a tip if you try this approach: DO NOT MOVE, even if she nicks you. Don't flinch, nothing. If she does nick you (my wife did, a tiny bit), respond with "Oh, you did?" It's not very difficult to shave the back of someone's neck, so it should go well overall.

A few weeks later, much to my surprise, my wife very willingly let me shave her legs.


Final note: if your wife really has a phobia-level anxiety about sharp objects, let it go.