Thread: wife wont let me shave!!!!

Originally Posted by Oglethorpe

Ok, but we are talking about a guy and his wife. It's not like he's walking up to a woman on the street that he doesn't know and asking her repeatedly if he can shave her legs....

I think it's inappropriate to suggest that Salzach is attempting to rule his wife with an iron fist because he wants to share with her something he finds enjoyable.

EDIT: I think what the OP was asking for was suggestions from others who have had success in this area (i.e. "sharing other people's success stories in an attempt to persuade"). There is nothing wrong with persuasion along the lines of selling an idea, even if the initial reaction is negative. Of course, if he ties her to a chair, then we have a problem.

Just my two cents.

I think the fact that this is no ordinary woman, and in fact the woman he loves, is what makes it so important he respect her wishes.

I'm not saying he's trying to rule her with an iron fist. What I'm saying is that it is so easy for us to overlook other people's right of consent when they conflict with our own wishes.

Most of the gentlemen here are of an older generation. Most of you were raised with the subtle idea that it is ok to try to change the wishes of women to fit your own.

I am not suggesting that you're all wicked and sexist. I'm suggesting that the mindset you probably were brought up with may be slipping under your radar. We all have things like that. We are all affected by our upbringing, the time in which it took place, and these subtle messages we receive even as children.

I know what kind of guys you are around here, and I know that most of you very much respect women. But no one is perfect, and in order for you to respect women to the degree many of you do, you are actively fighting against the society you were brought up in.

I'm just pointing something which you may not have noticed, while carrying on that fight. We could all love better.

I don't think it is possible for me to convey to you, or any other man, what an important thing body limits are. How poorly respected our body limits are as women. And this is demonstrated by the fact that you think trying to talk her into it is more acceptable because she's his wife.

It's not.

She is not obligated to submit out of love, or out of trust, or because he is a man, or because he is her man. None of these things matter. We all have body limits.

She is scared of straights. She has every right to be. They're really bloody sharp.

Many of us are scared of straights, but there's a difference between respectfully cautious, and actual fear.

I am respectfully cautious of needles, yet that hasn't stopped me from getting piercings.

I have a friend who has to take a high dose of Xanax before she gets a shot because she is so afraid.

The shot isn't going to kill her. She knows that. But she's scared, and she can't help it. I love having friends go with me when I get inked or pierced, but I'd never try to force her to go, let alone try to talk her into getting something done herself. It's not her thing. And I don't want to upset her.

If his wife is experiencing true fear as relates to a straight (and who among us could blame her), how is it in any way acceptable for him to try to make her go through such fear?

This is not HER passion. It's his. And she is not obligated to share it.

I'm sorry, I'm just very passionate about this kind of issue. So many people are under the false impression that once you're in a relationship, limits and true consent (meaning, consent which has not been forced or coerced) doesn't matter anymore.

These days, I shave my wife once a week and mine was as scared as your in the beginning.

Since she won't let you...you need to advertise it! Every time you get a close shave, come up to her, 'hey honey...feel this...isn't is great?' Do this every time you get a great shave and when you whack yourself, don't show her. After doing this for a month, she was on board!

With all due respect, I think you are over-reacting MistressNomad. The OP never implied he was trying to force or coerce, but only wondering how to convince her to try, and to that he has gotten good advice, such as to concentrate on his shave and she will eventually come to him on her own if she chooses. To say that he has no right to try and convince her to do something is laughable, I will have to tell my girlfriend to get off my case about putting the toilet seat down after use, she has been trying to convince me to do that for a quite a while. I agree whole heartedly about the fact that no one, no matter who they are, has a right to force someone else to do anything ever, but convincing is whole other matter, to convince is to persuade though debate and evidence(such as his nick free BBS face, or my girlfriends wet butt), not to force or coerce.

I am sorry for using that certain eleven letter word with a hypen, I know the reaction that usually comes from it, but I couldnt think of a more politically correct word. Peace.

As a student of the interpretation of ancient religious texts, let me say:

Both sides here have valid potential inferred meanings. Interpretations.

Without further information from Salzach, who has been scared *&@^less by this point, we cannot know his *actual* intent or meaning. Any arguing about who is or is not interpreting him correctly is just speculating and having a ****ing match.

That said, there are some excellent points made on both sides of this dialogue.

I do have a way of occasionally using brash words, it's true. And some of my reaction is influenced by my own experiences in the world, and of those around me.

Let's take your example of the toilet seat thing. I think this is very fundamentally different from trying to convince someone to use, or allow use of, a razor-sharp instrument.

A comparable example going in the opposite direction would be if your partner were to not dispose of menstrual products properly. It's unhygienic, and something you would be very justified in asking her not to do. Similarly, she is justified in asking you to put the toilet seat down for the sake of her hygiene.

Leaving toothpaste sitting in the sink or leaking on the counter, leaving dishes undone for unwarranted periods of time... all of these are basic domestic things that people who live together need to work on for each other.

But I suppose the thing that irked me here was tone. The tone I read was that he feels she shouldn't have any qualms about letting him shave her with a straight razor.

Let's keep in mind what this is. Pretty much all of us have in some point in time hurt ourselves with our straights. It will cut through your skin if you don't keep it in motion almost immediately. It requires months of careful and persistent dedication to get to the point where a person's technique is good enough that injuries are preventable. Before that, it's just a matter of luck.

And no, I don't think anyone has the right to try to convince someone to allow such a dangerous tool to be used on them.

Let's also remember what fear does. Fear causes reactions that can ultimately cause injury. When you use one, fear may cause shaking, making the blade angle unstable and leading to a cut.

In her, she may feel a bit of drag or a catch, and jerk her leg away in instant response. What do you suppose is likely to happen? And how do you suppose this will influence her in the future as relates to straight razors?

And again, I return to psychology. Our environments have all improved and damaged us in various ways.

In my generation, a complete lack of personal responsibility abounds. I fight against that all the time. I was lucky my personal upbringing didn't encourage it, but the society I lived in did.

Women of her generation may feel they need to submit to pressure because they will be seen as undesirable or uncaring if they don't.

There's two aspects to consent. Words, and actions.

A "yes" is not true consent, if the actions behind is convey fear and unwillingness. It is simply someone who feels they have been pressured sufficiently to give in.

red69ta gives a good middle ground, I think. Show off your good results! Let that speak for itself. Don't pressure, and don't repeatedly ask until that "no" becomes a semi-consensual "yes."

A couple other guys have mentioned letting her come to you. This is a true gauge of honest consent.

And this goes both ways. I have caught myself pressuring a man in the exact same way. Women are often even less aware of it than men, because it is so much more acceptable in society for women to pressure.

I'm not really saying this is some enormous issue. I'm simply saying that we should all strive to treat our loved ones in the best possible way we can. We all make mistakes along the way and we all have a lot to learn.

If you want to treat a loved one in the best possible way, the pressuring is something that all of us should try to do less of, because we all do it.

EDIT BKratchmer: Yup, absolutely. Salzach, I hope you haven't been scared away!

I'm just putting something up for consideration. I am still the only lady thus far to have replied, so I think my opinion here is needed.

Originally Posted by Jasongreat

With all due respect, I think you are over-reacting MistressNomad. The OP never implied he was trying to force or coerce...

I didn't see her posts as actually accusing the OP. I think she was addressing some stuff that came up in the thread and also suggesting that he empathize with a female perspective that the OP's wife may (most likely does) share to some extent. I don't think body limits are just a women's issue either in case I implied that

Iron fist of love baby!
Just kidding. You all have great points. I'm gonna leave well enough alone and not bug her about it.
Man I'm loving straight shaving. I just want to point and laugh at the shaving isle at the store everytime I go to Walmart. I can't believe I didn't get into this years ago.
So we are expecting our first baby in July. I'm hoping its a boy so I can pass this wonderful tradition.

Originally Posted by MistressNomad

Hey Salazch!

Maybe this isn't what you want to hear, but this is a lady's perspective, and I note I am the first lady to chime in as of yet.

I am a really, really big fan of respecting limits, totally, unconditionally, and immediately.

It scares her. She said no. Maybe it's not for her. Drop it.
.....
But if you love her, and respect her as an equal partner, just leave it alone.

+500 on that.

Stuff in the bathroom is personal....

Salzach - I catch myself doing the exact same thing the past couple times I've gone to the grocery store! I stop and look at the prices for blades and go "Psshh. Philistines."

Glad you didn't get scared off or anything - not my intent at all. Just trying to provide an alternate perspective.

Who knows, maybe she'll see how wonderfully smooth your face is and come around some day.

And congrats on the little one.

Well. I had my post all typed out and then I got the subscription email that Salzach had replied.

Good for you, my friend, for making light of what was becoming a dangerously slippery slope of a politically / social status-charged debate of a thread. I know that if I were the OP on this one, it would have turned out extremely differently.

I'm going to follow salazch's example, take the high road, and duck right out of this one.