Thread: minimalism

Originally Posted by dinosilone

I didn't know what to call this thread, so the title probably isn't very good.

I've been shaving with a straight razor for about 40 years - my grandfather taught me when I was in my teens, and, though I had some periods of lapsing back to disposables, mostly I've kept up the tradition because I like having to pay attention. Also, I found that I tend to cut myself a lot less using a straight razor than with a disposable - I have no explanation for that.

Anyway, I've been reading with interest the instructions on razor maintenance and upkeep, and I was very surprised to learn that I've been doing it wrong for 40 years...

I've described my sharpening regime in another thread a couple of months ago - I use a "razor stone", but I don't always have the edge lead - I do it the same way I sharpen my chisels, knives and plane irons - I alternated the direction of the strokes. I follow that honing process with a powered strop charged with "Yellowstone" and then a buffing wheel - the same routine I use with my carving tools. I do this when the razors need it, which is about every 3-6 months. (I have a partial beard nowadays - I'd probably have to sharpen more frequently if I were totally clean shaven.)

My daily blade preparation is stropping on an "Imperial Russia" hanging strop that I've been using for at least 30 years. I charge that with Yellowstone once every few months. I don't strop 50 times in each direction, that's for sure - maybe 10-20 times.

I keep the strop taught, and I put most of the pressure on the spine of the razor. I start lifting the edge before the end of the stropping stroke (to avoid dubbing the edge), and flip it on it's spine, never letting the spine lose contact with the strop. I DO use my wrist (along with my fingers) to flip the razor, but I've never experienced any kind of pain. I rarely if ever use the canvas.

I'm traveling on business right now, and when I travel, I use a disposable razor - I hate to check baggage, and the TSA would probably have a field day with me if I tried to carry on a straight razor. :-) The reason I mention this is that I started reading some of the threads where a much more rigorous daily maintenance regime is described, and I wondered "Have I been doing this wrong for 40 years? Am I getting a terrible shave, and just not noticing it?"

But I just shaved with the disposable, and I can fairly say that the shave I got with it was no better than what I get with my low-maintenance straights every day. Smooth is smooth.

Has anyone looked at how little you can get away with in terms of stropping, etc, without losing quality? Remember - our grandfathers used these things every day, and they were busy men. They didn't devote 30 minutes to shaving - it was more like the 3-5 minutes it takes me.

I think the key is learning how to use the equipment. I remember using the styptic almost every day when I was first learning, and creating gashes that not even tissue paper could handle. My latest styptic is about 15 years old, at least.

Just a thought.

Bravo, I have been promoting a minimalist approach for some time. I see no reason behind the efforts of some to make the use of a straight razor some type of esoteric art. In my opinion, shaving is a simple manual skill that can be mastered by anyone with average or better hand eye coordination and a little patience. The key principle of my philosphy is:

Do what comes natural.

This applies to honing, stropping and shaving. In fact, as far as I can tell, most of the false starts and outright disasters I have seen here can be traced back to an attempt to force some type of unnatural motion onto the process.

I also see no benefit from the high priced (I would say overpriced) tools many seem to promote. Strops, hones, etc are tools intended to perform a specific function and perfectly functional versions of each can be had for a few dollars.

Of course, if anyone feels that they must have that $200 coticule or $100 strop or $400 razor, and they can afford it, then go for it. Anything that makes you feel good is generally a good investment. This is the reason I don't drive an economy sedan.

i am even more minimalist. i shave with my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfathers pocket knife using soap scum found in the sink at work.

Top THAT!

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

i am even more minimalist. i shave with my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfathers pocket knife using soap scum found in the sink at work.

Top THAT!

I took a piece of rock and meticulously ground the edge of a seashell until it was thin enough to cut hair, or at least pull it out by the roots. Now I shave by dragging a sharpened seashell across my cheek. My only pre-shave treatment is water that I obtained by digging a hole in the ground, and waiting for natural ground water to bleed into that hole. I dug the hole with the rock I used to grind the seashell.

Good sir, you have been topped.

Dinosilone – I find your post both instructive and thought provoking, as it points out (to me at least) the blurring of the two faces of SRP.

SRP caters to both the hobbyist and also welcomes, encourages and supports the new str8 shavers. These lines are blurred when advanced / hobbyist techniques are inappropriately applied, proposed to, or attempted by those who are just learning to shave without having them well grounded in the basics (minimalists approach) first.

Learning to shave with a str8, as you pointed out, is not a painless or quick task. Indeed, the shortest route is to learn to use the (basic / minimalist) equipment… that being a shave ready razor, strop, and prep. You were fortunate in having an instructor that you knew and trusted at your side to demonstrate the basics and provide guidance and instruction for both shaving and maintaining your razor. I would guess that there were hundreds of questions you did not even have to ask as they were answered before you thought of them. Your instructor knew you well enough to know how best to instruct you, and you probably had great confidence in him. This got you started on the right foot and you, eventually, mastered the basics. Your apprenticeship to shaving was accompanied by an on site journeyman. But even with one on one help you still had difficulty at first.

Imagine then how much more difficult it would have been to try learning from a book with no one there to correct your technique, or provide you with the equipment to get started. And your only avenue to ask a question was via long distance communication with someone you did not know. The book has been replaced by a computer, but remote instruction is today’s challenge. Thankfully, this forum and many of its membership has embraced the challenge of teaching str8 shaving to the newcomers. Your call for minimalism makes sense for this task.

The hobbyist / enthusiast however, wants to go beyond the basics. And many (if not most) of the post on this forum are in the hobbyist / enthusiast realm, and beyond what should be considered “the basics”. It is true that many in this area have a tendency to promote their method / technique as superior, that is human nature I suppose. Experimentation in the hobbyist realm is rampant. It is the internet, and the reader must do their “due diligence” with regards to advice and claims. What works for one person here may indeed only work for one person here. The hobbyist / enthusiast wants to take their “sport” to the next level. Trouble awaits those who enter here without first learning the basics.

You have not been doing it wrong for 40 years, obviously. You have mastered the basics. There is no need to go beyond there for a good shave. A truly great shave however is going to take a little more, and that is where it starts to get fun!

OK, I’m done rambling…

dinosilone, it's good to hear from an "old timer" who did it their way for many many years. I say good on ya, and if it ain't broke then don't fix it, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Unless you get that desire to try out the new toys and tricks like the rest of us .

And I shouldn't be surprised that when an honest post like this comes along that the first reactions are usually defensiveness and justification (of one's own habits). I think most of us realize that this is more than just shaving (at SRP at least), so no one should have to give an excuse why they spend so much on creams or strops or razors. But there's nothing wrong if a guy wants to take a minimalist approach as well.

Originally Posted by shooter1

SRP caters to both the hobbyist and also welcomes, encourages and supports the new str8 shavers.

The hobbyist / enthusiast however, wants to go beyond the basics. And many (if not most) of the post on this forum are in the hobbyist / enthusiast realm, and beyond what should be considered “the basics”. It is true that many in this area have a tendency to promote their method / technique as superior, that is human nature I suppose.

The hobbyist / enthusiast wants to take their “sport” to the next level.

I do agree with the above, but this is the same as any hobby: there's always going to be someone with better toys, more razors, better soaps, better in general...... and it does seem to breed a certain amount of competitiveness for some people. Just ask around to see if anyone here has only one razor and soap....

Originally Posted by fccexpert

Bravo, I have been promoting a minimalist approach for some time. I see no reason behind the efforts of some to make the use of a straight razor some type of esoteric art. In my opinion, shaving is a simple manual skill that can be mastered by anyone with average or better hand eye coordination and a little patience. The key principle of my philosphy is:

Do what comes natural.

This applies to honing, stropping and shaving. In fact, as far as I can tell, most of the false starts and outright disasters I have seen here can be traced back to an attempt to force some type of unnatural motion onto the process.

I completely agree with this...anything beyond a razor, hone, strop, brush, and some sort of soap...everything else is a 'hobby expense'. This setup got my great granddad got by using this method his entire life. The reality of the matter is that shaving for the rest of your life should cost you more than $150 or so in gear...and lots of us here spend that every month. Heck, when I started, I only had $30 to make it through the next couple months in shaving expenses and decided to use it on a straight from an antique store, a piece of 2000 grit wet/dry, and a strip of leftover latigo from the leather shop. When I was done with the razor, it passed the HHT, TPT, and the rest of the 'tests' used to determine a good edge...heck it even shaved fine and I still have that first razor in my rotation.

The test of being a true minimalist is this: 1) Does it work. If you can answer yes, then stop...you're at a good stopping place. Being a minimalist doesn't mean that the wiki should be less than one page, it means that it should be fifty times larger than it is..."here are the top ten ways to hone a razor"...and such.

I sure like minimalism I am a minimalist with a lot of options.

I recall your sharpening thread but not so much that i could say how much you use it for razors.

With a razor hone and charged strop, i'd say yup-that is minimalistic/ now with the rest of your motors, wheels et al. eh? not so much.

I understand how it works and that it does work and I'm sure it works very well. And perhaps with much less fuss than many of us seem to be up to

I have a set of stones(4 hones 2 rubs) that stack into a 4x6x1.5 inch leather case. I can sharpen almost anything with those; be on jobsite or streamside, anywhere in the world and do same as last night.

Shaving is the perfect hobby because we can utilize it every day. I think one reason that guys on the forums don't define the minimalism approach very well is that razors, strops, hones, hold their value very well. You can use these tools for many years and they will still hold their value years later. Their are many worse things you could spend your money on. If I go buy the latest Taylor Made putter for a 200 dollars, 3 years from now it won't be worth 50.

I sure like minimalism I am a minimalist with a lot of options.

I recall your sharpening thread but not so much that i could say how much you use it for razors.

With a razor hone and charged strop, i'd say yup-that is minimalistic/ now with the rest of your motors, wheels et al. eh? not so much.

I understand how it works and that it does work and I'm sure it works very well. And perhaps with much less fuss than many of us seem to be up to

I have a set of stones(4 hones 2 rubs) that stack into a 4x6x1.5 inch leather case. I can sharpen almost anything with those; be on jobsite or streamside, anywhere in the world and do same as last night.

I understand all about hobbies, believe me! :-) I didn't intend to criticize anyone, particularly not if they're having fun. When I first got into hand-tool woodworking, using mostly tools I'd inherited from that same grandfather, I probably seemed nuts. My grandfather would have been the first one to tell me I was nuts, doing something for fun that he'd broken his behind doing all his life so none of his descendants would have to work with their hands or their backs again. He would probably be just as surprised to learn that I had stuck with a straight razor, and was in fact still using one of his.

"Learning to shave with a str8, as you pointed out, is not a painless or quick task. Indeed, the shortest route is to learn to use the (basic / minimalist) equipment… that being a shave ready razor, strop, and prep. You were fortunate in having an instructor that you knew and trusted at your side to demonstrate the basics and provide guidance and instruction for both shaving and maintaining your razor. I would guess that there were hundreds of questions you did not even have to ask as they were answered before you thought of them. Your instructor knew you well enough to know how best to instruct you, and you probably had great confidence in him. This got you started on the right foot and you, eventually, mastered the basics. Your apprenticeship to shaving was accompanied by an on site journeyman. But even with one on one help you still had difficulty at first."

No - it wasn't like that. He didn't "teach" me anything, at least not on purpose. I bought my first straight razor, stone and paddle-mounted strop when I was about 18 or 19 (an Otto Fromm, razor, that I still use). He took a look at it and said it was junk (it had a 90 degree rather than a rounded edge, and he said I'd cut myself. He told me that if I wanted to use a straight razor, I should get one with rounded edges, and a hanging strop (his prejudice) - I wound up doing that about 10 years later, after he was dead.

I learned by watching him - he lived with us when I was growing up, so I would watch him strop, watch him shave, watch him sharpen his tools... we were very close. I never asked any questions, (we'd be talking about other things). And he never volunteered any information. So I mostly learned by example and by trial and error. Let me emphasize the "error" part!

I didn't really learn how to sharpen the razor properly until I started doing woodworking and carving seriously, and had to learn to sharpen my other tools. A hand-tool woodworker HAS to know how to get his tools sharp and keep them that way, quickly and efficiently - or he'll spend all his time sharpening and none of it building anything. Even in that hobby, there are folks that go nuts about equipment, etc. I was never one of them.

I admit that my powered strop and buffing wheel isn't really minimalistic, but before I built that I just took longer on the initial stropping after using the touch-up stone. But my rig cost me less than $100 to put together, using a piece of scrap MDF, a garbage-picked washing machine motor, a belt from a garage sale, some stuff from Home Depot and some pulleys and bearings. I'll never need anything else - it does the job.

Two things brought me to this forum to begin with. The first was that my last tube of Palmolive shave cream had run out, and the local Shoprite no longer carried it (I didn't know it had been discontinued.) The other was that the scales on my favorite razor, which had been threatening to break off for a couple of years, finally gave up the ghost.

I've found the information here really helpful, and the discussions fun. And some of the shop-built razors and other stuff are really inspiring. I did get inspired to re-scale that razor, using some scrap cocobolo that I had lying around, and it came out pretty nice - well worth the 30 minutes or so that it took. And, based on discussions here, I found a decent replacement for my old Palmolive shave cream for $10/tube (still a little steep, but at least I was able to find it locally, so I didn't have to pay shipping). So I've definitely gotten my money's worth