Thread: Some rambling thoughts...

this thread must have wore out my Thanks button, it won't work any more!
Great read from everyone so far. Ramble on.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Mitch can really appreciate what I mean here, because he was at the Denver meet and watched me switch between finishing hones on almost every razor I did, that is the personal part of honing, and what the most typing is about... It is also very, very, easy for us to do, because the razor is at a shave ready condition before it gets too "Whatever" finisher I/You want to chose.... Those guys watched every single razor no matter the starting point, always get to shaving sharp, then I would say "What Finisher"???

Yep. Glen it made clear that the razor was indeed shave sharp already and this last little bit was a matter of personal preference. No doctrine, no dogma just what is your preference.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

I didn't miss that point at all, Glen. In fact, I kinda made it too in referencing professional honers. What I'm saying is that it's not as critical for the average person as it is for you or others. Besides that, Shaptons or any of the most "consistent" stones in the world won't work for someone with a a stroke that's not capable. My main point concerning that is that the normal person doesn't need a lot of the stuff that people recommend to them... Shaptons from 1k up to 30' isn't going to be much easier/better than the Norton set and chromox, but the price is significantly steeper... The squeeze the trigger bit is excellent, but it deals more with the approach, not the gear... Competitive shooters will benefit a lot more from expensive specialized gear than we will, but we all need to work on squeezing the trigger instead of jerking it

I knew that we agreed in there someplace... sooner or later the steel has to hit the stone if ya wanna learn to hone...

Great thoughts, I probably started repeating advice a bit early... but at least it was advice from people like Glen, Max, and Lynn's tips for beginners. Now I feel like I have fought enough of my own battles to share my perspective and experiment with my own ideas.

One thing I'd like to add here is that even though we all have our methods and areas of knowledge, a great thing about having such a large group of skilled individuals at our disposal here at SRP is that we are bound to learn new things if we keep our eyes open.

When I can get past my own ego, I to ask questions about things that I think I have a decent background in. During my first few weeks here, I remember asking Glen about his thoughts on finishing walnut... I've been working with walnut for years, but I figured that he might have additional info that I could learn from. I've since learned many things that I wouldn't have if I'd kept quiet.

One of the least impressive displays I've seen happened when I saw one very experienced individual (nobody that is still a member here by the way) automatically dismiss another experienced restorer's arguments just because he had "been doing this for 20 years." At that point, I decided that I would look for my info elsewhere because I never want to get to the point where I know it all... know-it-alls by definition can't learn new things, and I'm not interested in that.

Look at Glen and Lynn, they don't stop trying new honing techniques, or trying new things out, and they have more hands on experience than many will ever have.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

The real difference in honing is the grunt work, this is where consistency rules, this is where the "Discussions" occur about honing systems...

few will take the time explaining the under 8k process but every "Expert" out there will explain the wonders of their favorite finishing stone...

Thanks, this really gives me some good perspective Glen... I've really been trying to put in some work on getting the early sharpening stages down. It's good to have the reminders every now and then.

I may be missing the point of the original post and definitely those following here, but it is all really about preference. If a guy is concerned purely about the money, then so long as he starts out with a shave ready razor, he can maintain his razor for a very long time with 10 strokes of CrOx on the back side of either his leather or webbed/linen side of the strop. When that quits working, someone can pick up a Chinese 12K, decent barber hone or a better finishing hone and do 10-15 strokes on the finisher, 10 on the CrOx and then the regular strop and push the maintenance period out even further. Only question here is whether 10, 30 or 50 or more will be the magic number on the Chinese and you may need more strokes on some of the other natural finishers as well.

The key to me as Glen pointed out is consistency. If I know something will work 9 or more times out of 10, then that method and those tools become my first recommendation whether you hone 1 or 1,000 razors. It's pretty straight forward. Certainly there are other tools and methods that can get a job done and that is each individuals call.

I do more stropping in a month than most people do in a year. I get to test almost every strop out there and compare against great old vintage strops for results. Sure I can get by with an old belt, but are the results as good and wouldn't I want something that will last and perform forever if possible (HAD excluded). We have people on band wagons for everything around here from strops to razors to soaps to hones and brushes and you name it. There are products out there for every persons taste and budget.

You don't need a full set of Shaptons or Naniwa's, but I do recommend 1K, 4K or 5K, 8K and 12K or 16K. Pasting will depend on how well you develop your skills and what you want a blade to feel like when shaving. I also recommend Norton 1K, 4K and 8K. As I've said a ton of times, all I used for a couple of years was the Norton 4K and 8K and it worked well until I succumbed to the search for the Holy Edge.

To me it is easier to give people some type of parameter in terms of the number of strokes on a stone or media that will give them quick success as they improve their touch and feel. So call it counting numbers. I can think of every excuse from I'm just a natural guy to I don't need no stinkin' counting and it really doesn't matter if it works for you.

Many people use just sandpaper on a flat plate and others use films and others use different grit sprays on rocks and others are experimenting with old tool stones and new rock finds and the journey continues.

We have tons of people who come in an adopt a DIY approach to everything here, whether this is just their nature, whether for their own satisfaction or whether seeing $$ in their eyes. Something is always cheaper and something is always more expensive. Who is to say what anyone has to and doesn't have to do to enjoy straight razor shaving or any of the associated things that go along with it? Who is a normal person? What does a normal person need? I will never be the judge of that.

Personally, I think getting some to where they can shave comfortably and enjoy it is the main task. Everything else follows.

Originally Posted by Lynn

HAVING FUN IS THE BOTTOM Line!

Hey Lynn, I found the line above was in the middle of your post not at the bottom
I think you're trying to confuse me on purpose, now I don't know what to believe anymore
I miss the old posts ending with :

Have fun.

Originally Posted by gugi

Hey Lynn, I found the line above was in the middle of your post not at the bottom
I think you're trying to confuse me on purpose, now I don't know what to believe anymore
I miss the old posts ending with :

Have fun.

Ooooops!!!!!



Have fun!!!!

Lynn

Based on how I titled the thread, I'm not sure what the point was either, Lynn

I guess, when I think about a "normal" guy, I think of the guy that represents the majority. I'm not saying I'm definitely right, but I reckon that the majority just want to shave and maintain their own razors. Now with that perspective, 100 percent of the systems we're talking about will work. 9 out of 10 (on the first attempt) is a much more important consideration if you have 15 razors in front of you every day than if you have one a week (or less)... Virtually all the systems will get the job done, but not every honer is as demanding of their stones as some. If I have to dig a trench 4 times a year, does it make sense to buy an excavator (it's definitively more consistent and easier than the backhoe attachment that will go on my John Deere)? Of course I can get it done in 2/3 the time, but it's overkill for my needs. What's even more telling (and more to my point) is that many still recommend using some paste at the end of the progression... After all that, we're back to a very effective, inexpensive piece of kit....

I guess ny deal is that a lot of private conversations I've had (via telephone with friends) show that the perception is that it's an expensive undertaking to hone and maintain our razors when it doesn't have to be...

Again, I've not said I'm right, and someone else is wrong. All I'm saying is we can still enjoy this on the cheap, and while not disputing the consistency claims of synthetics (or specific ones), I'm just not sure $300 to $1000 worth of equipment makes the most sense for the majority of guys.

I could be completely wrong about that, and I'm just sharing some "rambling thoughts". That's all

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Based on how I titled the thread, I'm not sure what the point was either, Lynn

I guess, when I think about a "normal" guy, I think of the guy that represents the majority. I'm not saying I'm definitely right, but I reckon that the majority just want to shave and maintain their own razors. Now with that perspective, 100 percent of the systems we're talking about will work. 9 out of 10 (on the first attempt) is a much more important consideration if you have 15 razors in front of you every day than if you have one a week (or less)... Virtually all the systems will get the job done, but not every honer is as demanding of their stones as some. If I have to dig a trench 4 times a year, does it make sense to buy an excavator (it's definitively more consistent and easier than the backhoe attachment that will go on my John Deere)? Of course I can get it done in 2/3 the time, but it's overkill for my needs. What's even more telling (and more to my point) is that many still recommend using some paste at the end of the progression... After all that, we're back to a very effective, inexpensive piece of kit....

I guess ny deal is that a lot of private conversations I've had (via telephone with friends) show that the perception is that it's an expensive undertaking to hone and maintain our razors when it doesn't have to be...

Again, I've not said I'm right, and someone else is wrong. All I'm saying is we can still enjoy this on the cheap, and while not disputing the consistency claims of synthetics (or specific ones), I'm just not sure $300 to $1000 worth of equipment makes the most sense for the majority of guys.

I could be completely wrong about that, and I'm just sharing some "rambling thoughts". That's all

Thanks Paul,

Read my posts above. Looks like we can only reiterate at this point.

I'm done.

Have fun,

Lynn

Just my 2 cents....

Variety is the spice of life and all, but a lot can be said for learning how to properly and effectively use the equipment you have, rather than buying new toys under the guise that they will somehow make you a better honer. I realize that some members get excited when they hear about all these great gadgets and hones, and the temptation is there to go out and buy everything (yes, disposable income plays a huge role in any hobby). But one can not become proficient if they do not master the basics.