Thread: Clarification - Kamisori Razors

I e-mailed Randy earlier with my observations on two very similar (almostidentical) razors. One is from Fromm, the other from Timor. Both are new models introduced less than 6 months ago, not the old standards many of us already own. Both have the identical black spine and tang of the Kamisori, as well as similar etching. Neither firm, Timor or Fromm is allowed to say who makes them either. All are made in Solingen and other that Heirbert Wacker, Dovo is the only other game in town, so draw you own conclusions.

My results with the newest Timors and the Fromms was about what Randy found. not bad shavers once sharp but not nearly as sharp as other Dovo's fresh out of the box.

It would be interesting to compare any of these to a new, comparably priced, Dovo branded razor.

Best,
Tony

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

I am drawing a couple of conclusions from what I heard so far:

1) They definately did NOT contract their razors out to Dovo.
2) Honing the Satinedge and replacing the warped scales with SS Dovos that I'm beginning to like again cost less (for the blade/scales/hardware), took less time and produced better results.
3) If the blade is chipping easily, then we may have some problem with the steel itself. Maybe the hardening process?

Bill would be your best bet for recommendations in that department.

Firestart,
Amy never said they were not Dovo razors. If I was investing money on this though, I would be all over it, but alas, insider trading is illegal <g>.

Amy said, "As per our company’s policy I cannot really say whether or not Dovo makes them but I can tell you this much that our partners are a well-known company based in Solingen,"

Both Fromm and Timor will give a similar response when asked about their razors. For a 60 piece commitment I could offer a similar "Well Shaved Gentleman" razor, aslo made in Solingen, but I would be unable to say who made it.

I wished I still had either of these to send to Randy to do a comparison with. I found the other to be acceptable shavers and am sure Amy's razor is very similar. I just noticed mine needed a good amount of work to be usable. I am sure the new Kamisori razors are FAR better than their previous offerings.

Tony

Joe Chandler wrote:

Do you want an honest evaluation of your product, or do you want the reviewers to cherry pick the good things about it and fail to report the bad?

Maybe you haven't read the full thread...My quote from earlier on Bill's review:

as an experienced honemeister/knifemaker in the business I do take his review into consideration and I appreciate and respect him for giving his honest and open view(as I will with the other two gentlemen). We will learn from his feedback and if there is room for improvement(which there always is with anything ), we will certainly make them without skipping a beat.

This should answer your question.


Amy
http://www.kamisorishears.com

Amy,


I do agree that based on the 2 reviews so far, it sounds like your company is receiving rejected blades from another manufacturer. This would account for the varied results in the testing. Blades are rejected for a variety of reasons. the metal wasn't purified properly, or the blade didn't get punched out uniformly, etc.

Perhaps the department that brokered the deal with whomever makes your blades could go back and make sure this isn't causing an issue with the quality of your razors.

I'm not trying to be rude but if I understood you correctly, your original quotes, if you'll review, were that the razor you sent was a $100.00 razor, on sale for $80.00 with some distributors offering 'even better deals'. But regardless of the price of $50.00 versus $150.00 the shave should be closely the same I'd think. Just like a car. The foundation is the same on a base car, a deluxe, a special edition, and the limited editions. It's the "extras" that jack up the cost. a $50.00 razor from a major manufacture "should" shave just as well as most $150.00 razor from the same manufacturer. Likewise, a $50.00 razor from a competitor should perform equally on the shave if they want to have success in the market.

Originally Posted by amykamisori

I just wish you had compared the Kamisori 150 razor to one that is more comparable and in the same price range:

cost of TI Silver steel 7/8 Razor: $159.95
cost of KAMISORI 150 razor: $49.95 on ebay and $59.95 through our website

Amy

I wonder if this is all news to Kamisori, and they are just now finding out that they are getting 'seconds' or castaways from Dovo at a discount price?

we are 100% sure our razors are NOT seconds or castaways at discounted prices.


Amy
http://www.kamisorishears.com

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

Isn't the comparison between a TI SS and that blade a bit uneven?

Indeed. Although it was not intended as a full comparison, simply a guage for us "in the know" as to relative shaving response, the TI should not have been mentioned in the assesment. It's misleading.

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

2) Honing the Satinedge and replacing the warped scales with SS Dovos that I'm beginning to like again cost less (for the blade/scales/hardware), took less time and produced better results.

This is also unfair since we're out of the category again comparing apples to oranges. The DD is a vintage blade restored to useablity (usefulness?) and the Kamisori is a line product.

Not that those comments are incorrect, just hastily put. I put every stock in the opinions of these gentlemen even if the reasoning process is a little loose. Whose isn't.

I suspect what we're seeing with these companies is the journeyman's razor's that DOVO (or like) will not put their name to. Good that Kamisori has stepped up from even lower quality steel, but we should encourage them to take the next step and produce razors that we WOULD want to use and recommend more freely.

I'm looking forward to what Lynn will say.

X

I'm not trying to be rude but if I understood you correctly, your original quotes, if you'll review, were that the razor you sent was a $100.00 razor, on sale for $80.00 with some distributors offering 'even better deals'.

FUD,
You are not being rude. Your comments are welcome.

TO make this clear, that price I quoted ealier was for our PALADIN razor K306 with the white handle that bill reviewed, the razors that Randy and Lyn received were the BLUE BLADE 150 with the black handle which sells for $59.95 thru our website and $49.95 on ebay by some resellers.

But regardless of the price of $50.00 versus $150.00 the shave should be closely the same I'd think. Just like a car. The foundation is the same on a base car, a deluxe, a special edition, and the limited editions. It's the "extras" that jack up the cost. a $50.00 razor from a major manufacture "should" shave just as well as most $150.00 razor from the same manufacturer. Likewise, a $50.00 razor from a competitor should perform equally on the shave if they want to have success in the market.

he compared it to a TI which is a different manufacturer but regardless when comparing a $60 razor and a $160 razor, the various aspects of material and craftsmenship on the actual blade matter to make a difference on the shave, even if its from the same manufacturer i think. In your example of a automobile, a honda civic compared to a honda S2000 would be a big driving difference. Like Randy mentioned, he got a much better shave using the TI SS razor compared to the Kamisori Blue Blade but at a price difference of $100, I would assume he would.


Amy
http://www.kamisorishears.com

It is not serious to make assumptions that the Kamisori is getting seconds from the company that makes the blades for them. That will reflect badly for both the Kamisori and the company, and I think it is not the way business is done these days, with very little (or none) competition in this field.

The TI razors are not faultless, either. I remember posts where guys complained about uneaven bevel, nicks, and lousy finishing of the handle and blade graphics in the TI's...

You must have in mind that the razors are hand made products, and there are variations between the output pieces. I have top of the line product from "a well-known company based in Solingen" that is not up to my (or theirs) high standards.

So, I am waiting from the third Kamisori review, and in the mean time I will enjoy my 3 DOVO's and gather the cash to get one of the TI's silver steel razors...

Nenad

Originally Posted by amykamisori

FUD,
In your example of a automobile, a honda civic compared to a honda 2000 would be a big driving difference.
Amy
http://www.kamisorishears.com

Perhaps I should have used a more specific example.

I have driven the plymouth mini-van from chrysler, the similar dodge caravan from chrysler, and the Chrysler Town and Country. Likewise I've driven the base model of each, as well as the midrange and limited/special editions of each.

Per the local mechanics, the frame as well as the basic structure, engine, etc. are mostly identical. The cost differences come into play when you add automatic door openers, computer chip keys, cd changers versus standard am/fm/cassette, driver / passenger climate control, electronic seat adjustment, etc. etc. etc.

All the models drove the same with a very slight difference in shock absorbancy. The models all had very similar gas mileage ratings, All came with the same 3 year 36000 mile warranty, and all started falling apart around the same time after the warranty ran out . Of course a mini-van would drive comparably different than a 4X4 pickup truck or a luxury sedan.

This is my meaning. A similarly made high carbon steel blade and plastic handles/casing should shave just as well as one that has specialty handles and casing. Comparing a stainless blade to a high carbon blade may be apples and oranges, or comparing one quality steel to another quality steel may be comparing apples and oranges, but in my personal opinion, if I were to buy 2 razors from dovo, one at $60.00 and one at $100.00. Unless there's an advertised difference in the steel, I'd expect a decent shave from each.

I may be wrong in my expectations but this is what i would expect. If I were to want an "outstanding" shave that was almost heavenly I'd save up and buy one of Maestro's Damascene steel units , but for a decent shave I'd expect a $60.00 razor to shave similar to a $150.00 razor. Not necessarily identical but not markedly different either.

Of course if I'm wrong in this I'm sure the other members will point out why. This is a great lot of fellows here and I've already learned quite a lot from them.

Glen F

Oh, and if anyone's interested, My F.I.L. bought a $60.00 Dovo that I have to sharpen up. I'd be more than happy to receive one of the "comperable" kamisori razors, sharpen it and shave half my face with the dovo and the other half with the kamisori and tell you my thoughts . I'm sure he wouldn't mind me using his dovo to compare the two

glen F