Thread: Oops I attempted to carry a straight razor onto a plane!

How about the US Marine who was returning
from Afganastan. The man was in full uniform
and had all of his ID. At some point he was
not allowed to board a plane because he
had gunpowder residue on his boots.....

Has this country gone nuts or what?



Terry

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Josh, it's a hard habit to kick. I know. I've tried every method of quitting there is, several times over. Once you're hooked, some studies have shown that it's more difficult to kick than heroin. They should just outlaw tobacco but the lobby's too strong and the tax dollars are too tasty.

All outlawing tobacco would do is create another class
of criminals. Just like with illegal drugs you would then
have people running cigaretts across the borders to
fill the demand.

Prohibition failed and turned the AL Capone from
a street hoodlum into a multi millionaire. This would
do the same

How far do we go and how many rights should we
trample under the heavy boot of government in
order to protect people from themselves?


Terry

Originally Posted by wvbias

How about the US Marine who was returning
from Afganastan. The man was in full uniform
and had all of his ID. At some point he was
not allowed to board a plane because he
had gunpowder residue on his boots.....

Has this country gone nuts or what?



Terry

Its times like this I need to remember to breath deep and try to relax so that I dont get REALLY upset.... .....hmmm it doesnt seem to be working

Originally Posted by JLStorm

Its times like this I need to remember to breath deep and try to relax so that I dont get REALLY upset.... .....hmmm it doesnt seem to be working

I know that I've mentioned this one before
but here goes.

Husband, Wife and 2 year old son. Son has Asthma.
He is too little to use an inhaler so he has to use
a nebulizer. So the parents bring along a battery
powered one in case the little boy has an attact.
The TSA goons would not allow them to bring the
nebulizer on the plane. The nebulizer is an allowable
item.

So this is what people are up against.



Terry

Originally Posted by adjustme69

Bummmmmmmmer. I bought one of those traveling containers from Classicshaving that has the paddle strop and the pouch to put the razor in. I check it all the time without problem. No way am I dealing with those gifted TSA Agents.....hahahahaha.

Lynn

I think they've been gifting themselves with everyone's confiscated property.

Originally Posted by JLStorm

Unless they had gotten a warrant (which they would most probably not have) you could have refused the search. The computer in the car should be treated the same as the computer in the home since in most states castle doctin extends into the automobile. Probable cause is enough for them to ask to search your vehicle, but without a warrant they cant do it under most circumstances as far as I know...of course I am a bit rusty on my constitutional law...especially with the patriot act coming into play...

I could have refused but I figured they would consider a refusal a red flag and wasn't in the mood for more hassle than necessary. Besides, if they wanted to find out what websites I'd been to they could probably get that info from T-Mobile or FedEx/Kinkos anyway.

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I could have refused but I figured they would consider a refusal a red flag and wasn't in the mood for more hassle than necessary. Besides, if they wanted to find out what websites I'd been to they could probably get that info from T-Mobile or FedEx/Kinkos anyway.

The red flag doesn't matter. You still have your constitutional rights and why make it easy on them to invade your privacy? I especially hate it when they gull innocent people into allowing them to invade by privacy by using the "if you're really innocent, prove it." It's the oldest trick in the book. Remember that any reasonable constituion/charter specifically states that they have to prove that you're guilty and not the other way around. Therefore, use the politely indignant response:
"I am sorry constable, but as a citizen in good standing I have every right to refuse you access to my computer without a warrant. In addition to that I CATEGORICALLY deny the accusations and I am OUTRAGED at the malice behind them. If you want to examine my browsing history, go through the proper channels and get warrants to get the information from me, my ISP or my mobile company. Otherwise you may carry on and go after REAL offenders. Thank you very much and have a nice day. Carry on [with a tone of finality]"

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

The red flag doesn't matter. You still have your constitutional rights and why make it easy on them to invade your privacy? I especially hate it when they gull innocent people into allowing them to invade by privacy by using the "if you're really innocent, prove it." It's the oldest trick in the book. Remember that any reasonable constituion/charter specifically states that they have to prove that you're guilty and not the other way around. Therefore, use the politely indignant response:
"I am sorry constable, but as a citizen in good standing I have every right to refuse you access to my computer without a warrant. In addition to that I CATEGORICALLY deny the accusations and I am OUTRAGED at the malice behind them. If you want to examine my browsing history, go through the proper channels and get warrants to get the information from me, my ISP or my mobile company. Otherwise you may carry on and go after REAL offenders. Thank you very much and have a nice day. Carry on [with a tone of finality]"

The only problem with that response is that in the "real world" it's likely to be followed by, "Please step out of the car, sir." The question is always whether you're willing to go to court to vindicate your rights, or whether it's easier to just give in and get it over with.

Also remember that if the police have a reasonable suspicion that "criminal activity is afoot" they can briefly detain you to investigate, and if they have probable cause to believe you're guilty of any crime, they can arrest you. So, I don't know, if you're parked in a handicapped space, look out. :P They can talk to you, and ask for your consent to a search, with no suspicion at all. If they've arrested you, they might be able to search your car, either as a search incident to lawful arrest or under the automobile exception. New Jersey has limited the former with regards to cars, but it depends on your jurisdiction.

So, like many things, "it depends." I wouldn't consent to the search either, but then realize there's at least some chance they will do it anyway.

My problem with this is that it's a slippery slope that's all too real. An incident happens, some lunatic kills 50 people, the media starts a panic, a politician capitalizes on it and fuels it to get a few extra votes and then proposes an invasive measure. Soon enough I start hearing "if you have nothing to hide, you don't have anything to worry about." Well, I never stole even a stick of chewing gum, if I kicked somebody's a** it was always in self-defense, my life's squeaky clean other than a few speeding tickets but I still wouldn't consent to arbitrary anal probings and cameras in my house and car even if they think i'm the killer's best friend and accomplice.

I have found that if you are polite and confident, defending your rights works quite well. I have never had a major problem, but I admit when I am in the wrong, even if I get caught speeding (which is VERY rare), but I am sure that being aware of my rights has helpedme quite a bit. I treat anyone else as I would like to be treated, and we are usually able to meet on a common ground. I would also like to think that state and federal employees, especially the police think twice regarding violation of the rights of others now that they can be sued individually outside of their department for these violations. Regardless, I am always a little extra polite (but not easily walked on) with everyone including police because I am almost always armed which adds a responsibility on my part to make sure I remain calm and level headed.