Thread: Honing Frustration, and a question

Gents, as I posted in another thread I'm trying to 'touch up' a formerly shaving razor. I'm using what a very good JNAT...and it just ain't working for me. Most frustrating for me is that I can get a chisel to explode hair right above the skin with this very same stone--something the razor won't do.

Now, the razor improves markedly with stropping. Which raises a question of WHY stropping is necessary/useful? I've read the wiki and it explains THAT stropping is a necessity (okay, I believe it!). But, mechanically, WHY is the stropped edge better than the stoned edge? And is it? Always? necessarily?

Something odd about my razor. It's got a smile...but an odd one. If I am holding it right handed, with the blade towards me, the edge will sit absolutely flat on the stone. If I hold it right handed, edge away from me, the need for a 'rolling X' stroke is clearly visible: it will not sit flat. What is this telling about the blade geometry? Or am I subtly doing something wrong with grip/pressure/something?

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It's hard to say if it's technique or the stone (most likely technique) but still may be the stone.

A good jnat will either give a razor edge that won't need stripping or it will distort an edge if not used correctly. Now we just need to figure out if you have a good stone or bad technique although this is not an easy thing to do unless you know jnats well and have something to cross reference it too.

I found on some stones a reverse stropping stroke works better then a forward stroke. Less water is better on most although some love water. Even different steels like different Jnats. There are just soo many variables.

Does the stone produce a slurry when honing or do you need to create a slurry.
How much slurry is the stone producing (If it does) and are you making a slurry or just using the stones slurry produced from honing?
How quickly is the slurry turning black?
can you get a good shave from an 8k synthetic?

In the end only you can figure out how that stone performs best, This is why so many members get annoyed when newbies get Jnat. (Not having a go by any means)

FYI: Honing a chisel razor sharp doesn't mean the stone is razor friendly. I can get my chisels to cut hair on a 4K. I'm not going to finish my razor on a 4K

It really is hard to say but If stropping improves the edge I'm guessing your slurry is too heavy, too much water or who knows lol, also, try a stropping stroke as mentioned in my post above. i find the stropping stroke works on some of my stones better then a forward stroke.

In the end it really is hard to say what's going wrong without using the stone myself. You could always give it to me! Ill let you know how it goes! :P

Well, I'll try the stropped edge tomorrow. If it's not great, I'll try a synthetic 8k and let you know.

So strange to me. With every other edge tool I have, stropping positively degrades the edges off this stone.

If its not great you should be using the 8k or 4k before even thinking of the jnat. Make sure you can start to cut hairs at the 4k and it should be cutting well by the 8K.

There is no way i would be going to the jnat before this.

Could be slightly too much pressure. In really good light is there a shiny line at the very edge of your bevel on either side? Cause you could slightly be rolling the steel over creating a Burr and your strop knocks it off. I know when I very first started honing that was one thing I had to learn how to deal with. And mine was from 2 different things: first was slightly too much pressure and second was from over honing.

Like everyone here has told me several times (and eventually figured out exactly what they meant) "less is more" and enough "time and experience is a requirement in honing". The only way I can explain those quotes is you have to know your equipment. Know (within a few laps) how Many laps it's gonna take on each hone to get the job done before you even wet your hones.

Originally Posted by Brighty83

If its not great you should be using the 8k or 4k before even thinking of the jnat. Make sure you can start to cut hairs at the 4k and it should be cutting well by the 8K.

There is no way i would be going to the jnat before this.

When you say shaving @ 4k do you mean "bald patches on the arm"?

Also, back before we had synthetics, what was the honing sequence people used? I'm thinking of course of all those clean shaven Romans.

Originally Posted by Swerve

Could be slightly too much pressure. In really good light is there a shiny line at the very edge of your bevel on either side? Cause you could slightly be rolling the steel over creating a Burr and your strop knocks it off. I know when I very first started honing that was one thing I had to learn how to deal with. And mine was from 2 different things: first was slightly too much pressure and second was from over honing.

Like everyone here has told me several times (and eventually figured out exactly what they meant) "less is more" and enough "time and experience is a requirement in honing". The only way I can explain those quotes is you have to know your equipment. Know (within a few laps) how Many laps it's gonna take on each hone to get the job done before you even wet your hones.

I can appreciate this. With my other tools the move from synthetics to jnats was a learning curve. As was the move from arky stones to synthetics. It's why I'm asking questions so aggressively: Trying to glean out the critical but seemingly unimportant bits.

Any thoughts abou the blade sitting flat on one side but not the other?

Put your blade on something truly flat like a piece of glass and take some pictures, we love pictures!
Take some of your stones too!