Thread: Natural equivalent to a 12k Synthetic

Thanks for that quip about the Hart. I'm looking @ one of those, and if they don't perform well with Natural Stone, they're not for me.

See...this is another example of what I'm talking about. All the talk about 'overhoning'. How is it that a stone 'overhones' and 'breaks down the edge' but a strop won't?

Originally Posted by jgjgjg

Thanks for that quip about the Hart. I'm looking @ one of those, and if they don't perform well with Natural Stone, they're not for me.

See...this is another example of what I'm talking about. All the talk about 'overhoning'. How is it that a stone 'overhones' and 'breaks down the edge' but a strop won't?

My experience with the Hart is just one. There are many other folks that have them and swear by them. Mine has proven to be rather disappointing. YMMV

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

Same thing for my 12K SS. I kept on trying to get that last level of keenness out of it and was pushing it too far. My edges started to break down and get harsh. I've learned to be very cautious with the use of that stone now. It can deliver what it can deliver and the razor plays a big role in the outcome.

I've found something similar. Some razors snap to attention much more quickly than others. I've also been really careful to stop and test and put the loupe on it. If I think it is close, I'll let the CrOx felt, CrOx leather and strop on it to finish up. I've found CrOx and strop definitely smooth it up(on my face and in the loupe) and pop more hair.

Stropping definitely adds quality to an edge. You can sharpen a knife on any medium, and then see an improvement by stropping on blue jean denim. I once checked out a guys knife that wouldn't push cut paper well. He got up and walked away for a few minutes and came back. I had it push cutting well when he got back, without any stones or sandpaper being involved. He was very curious what I had done. I told him that I had stropped the edge on the pants leg of my blue jeans. He couldn't believe it.

Originally Posted by hatzicho

Some natural hones could be "adjusted" to a certain grit by using slurry. Best example are coticules where a wide range between very low grit can be created by using thick slurry and more pressure and on the other hand very fine grades up to 14 k or even more with just using water without slurry and the weight of the razor itself.
The same you got with thuringians, but not in that wide range. Using blue Thuris with pressure honing and thick slurry will bring them down to a grit range below 10 k, using them with water only will take them as high as 14 k +.
But of course it needs a lot of experience to adjust the grit to the fineness you would like to achieve. Also the steel of a razor plays an important role honing on natural stones!

That's an very important thing when it comes to naturals, some naturals just wont work with certain razors.
With synthetics you cant go wrong, then I feel they are a little like Volvos, they work but they're not that fun!

Originally Posted by pinklather

The man's doctor told him he has too much money and not enough frustration...

JG - unless your experience on the stones vastly exceeds the experience of your 'join date', your AD's will do nothing for your edges. Its a state where your enthusiam (a good thing) obscures/overwhelms your objective - skill on stones, better shaving edges.

Growing the rock garden when new - lets you have exposure to lots of rocks (wonderful experience) but competency on few or none of them.

Its usually the case that nothing anyone can say will change that. You sorta have to come to that conclusion on your own.

If I could toss in a thought to the cauldron of excitement, it would be that there's no rock that will get you further down the road (especially not naturals) than honing a couple hundred more blades.

For now, enjoy the excitement. When the fog clears, you have some rocks to play with and the knowledge that its not the rock, its the rockhound.

This should be a sticky which every new member should have to digitally sign when they join!!

My friend has hit the nail on the head and I thank him!!

Originally Posted by 1KnifeGuy4U

Stropping definitely adds quality to an edge. You can sharpen a knife on any medium, and then see an improvement by stropping on blue jean denim. I once checked out a guys knife that wouldn't push cut paper well. He got up and walked away for a few minutes and came back. I had it push cutting well when he got back, without any stones or sandpaper being involved. He was very curious what I had done. I told him that I had stropped the edge on the pants leg of my blue jeans. He couldn't believe it.

People who have significant money invested in natural finishing stones probably don't want to know how effective stropping on linen or denim really is.

I would guess that the force you used to burnish/sharpen that knife would be far more than what is appropriate for a razor.

Originally Posted by fuzzychops

People who have significant money invested in natural finishing stones probably don't want to know how effective stropping on linen or denim really is.

I would guess that the force you used to burnish/sharpen that knife would be far more than what is appropriate for a razor.

Do you mean stropping on clean denim or linen strop without any stropping compound / spray / ... ?

Originally Posted by fuzzychops

People who have significant money invested in natural finishing stones probably don't want to know how effective stropping on linen or denim really is.

There is nothing wrong with collecting hones over razors, we all have our passions...

I personally have enough finishing stones to touch up all my razors 3-4 times over. I just prefer the hone path over the razor path, for me this isn't a move to get the perfect edge but more of an interest in how the different hones handle. Much the same as how someone would like to know how a 5/8 feels to shave with vs a 8/8 or a wedge vs a half hollow.

What I don't understand is why some one would be collecting them without the knowing truly what is being collected. This would be the equivalent of someone looking at a photo on ebay and buying antique razors to restore not knowing what excessive wear is, what brand is good vs bad, natural vs synthetic scales etc.

If jgjgjg decides to go down the path I have, and it looks like he has, I just want him to know what exactly he is getting in to. The last thing I want is for someone to spend every $1 they have on something that they don't understand.

@jgjgjg - since you now have a Jnat, spend some time on this, compare the edge from a synthetic and see if you truly can improve the edge, see if you can make this thing cut faster like you are after. Ask questions about the stones you have and your technique before rushing to your next hone.

After a little genuine research and practice you may even find the answer to your own questions, and you will quickly discover that grit ratings don't apply to natural stones.

I also have my suspicions that with a little testing and practice the jnat(s) you have now may end up in a different spot during your honing progression. What you feel is a polisher now may be a pre-polisher later.. Or you may even find it dulls the edge slightly after your 12k.

Originally Posted by Nikolay

Do you mean stropping on clean denim or linen strop without any stropping compound / spray / ... ?

just plain linen