Thread: Shoubu-dani - Is this the correct spelling?

​Good morning folks

I have been doing a bit (which means a lot) of research into Jnats which includes a lot of reading on this site. I am a beginner honer (in fact have never honed anything in my life) and am interested in getting a Jnat for refreshing my razors. Anyway, I have been looking at japaneserazors.com and am a little bit confused. There are a number of what are called 'Shuobudani Type 100' stones, which look like good value stones for a beginner like me. I have also found on the same site other stones called 'Shoubudani Kiita LV 4' which are much more expensive.

My question is this: are these stones from the same quarry that is just misspelt or are there both Shuobudani and Shoubudani quarries that are different?

I've tried to find the answer myself including reading up on the history of Jnats and the quarries, but cannot find any reference to Shuobudani except in relation to these Type 100 stones. Any further enlightenment would be great!

Thanks

Here's a link for you (if you haven't found it already) Japan Tool - Technique&Knowledge - Natural Stone Mines

I know you probably already made up your mind, but if it were me, I'd be looking into synthetics, especially if your just starting out. Something like a Naniwa 12k. Get that down, then move onto Naturals. They can be difficult to learn.

Jnats can be impossible. Lot's of variables, endless choices. You'd need some Nagura's with the Jnat.
There should be an online course for them.

Best of luck to you....

Originally Posted by zib

Here's a link for you (if you haven't found it already) Japan Tool - Technique&Knowledge - Natural Stone Mines

I know you probably already made up your mind, but if it were me, I'd be looking into synthetics, especially if your just starting out. Something like a Naniwa 12k. Get that down, then move onto Naturals. They can difficult to learn.

Jnats can be impossible. Lot's of variables, endless choices. You'd need some Nagura's with the Jnat.
There should be an online course for them.

Best of luck to you....

Thanks Zib.

I had already read the link you posted (but thanks anyway) and it seemed to answer my question about Shoubo. My confusion came from the fact that there are a lot of positive comments on the board about Maksim and his experience with Jnats, so I didn't think he would have made a typo on the Type 100 stones (but we're all human!).

I also appreciate your advice on starting with synthetics. I have thought long and hard about it and at this stage I only need a hone for refreshing my edges (which the Naniwa 12k would do). I just don't really want to buy a synthetic and then spend more money to get a natural later on if I'm not going to do any extensive restoration work. I'm currently shaving off an edge honed by Oz and I love it (although I know that I won't be able to replicate it) so the Jnat finish appeals to me.

Thanks again for your input.

Originally Posted by kiwichris

Thanks Zib.

I had already read the link you posted (but thanks anyway) and it seemed to answer my question about Shoubo..

Hey Chris ,looks like you made a typo here.

Essentially you can spell it how you want as all Japanese words are only a phonetic equivalent when anglicised.

The stones are from are the same mine typo's aside.

Kiita are more expensive because they are yellow which for some reason is favoured by Japanese collectors, I guess like a red Ferrari might be more popular than some other colour. As a rule Kiita are not common as a razor stone but there can be exceptions.

Just as an aside I think it's awesome that we get to use stones from a mine that was reserved for the original Shogunate.

My first Jnat was the Shoboudani type 100 (don't ask me to spell that correctly) and it was exactly what I needed right out of the gate. While I too would suggest synthetics to start with I would also suggest the SType 100 as your first Jnat. The only complaint I had with it was the size. The ones Maksim sells (and I highly recommend buying from Maksim) are a little small and can be a little challenging with a larger sized blade. But to be honest, unless you intend to hone razors for others, it may be all the Jnat you'll ever need. I later bought a slightly larger Ozuku and the two provide very similar edges. I couldn't be happier with them both. And yes, you will need nagura as well. At least Mejiro and a tomo.

I'd not go for a Jnat at all if I were a beginner honer. You are getting yourself into hones that require experience to get the best of them. And it is not the stone that is so special, it is honing experience that is needed to get best results.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

And yes, you will need nagura as well. At least Mejiro and a tomo.

If used like a Barber hone i.e. 5 strokes but on a frequent basis, maybe 1x week if the razor is not in a rotation, the edge could be maintained with water alone. The Nagura would give a bit more versatility in case you get to the point where maintenance strokes would fail.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Hey Chris ,looks like you made a typo here.

Essentially you can spell it how you want as all Japanese words are only a phonetic equivalent when anglicised.

The stones are from are the same mine typo's aside.

Kiita are more expensive because they are yellow which for some reason is favoured by Japanese collectors, I guess like a red Ferrari might be more popular than some other colour. As a rule Kiita are not common as a razor stone but there can be exceptions.

Just as an aside I think it's awesome that we get to use stones from a mine that was reserved for the original Shogunate.

Thanks Oz, that's precisely the kind of answer I was looking for. Your knowledge of Jnats and Japan in general was all I needed. Speaking of Kiita - I saw a photo of one this morning that looked just like a coticule - very yellow.

I agree that the history that goes with stones from these mines is amazing. I'm learning more about that every day.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

My first Jnat was the Shoboudani type 100 (don't ask me to spell that correctly) and it was exactly what I needed right out of the gate. While I too would suggest synthetics to start with I would also suggest the SType 100 as your first Jnat. The only complaint I had with it was the size. The ones Maksim sells (and I highly recommend buying from Maksim) are a little small and can be a little challenging with a larger sized blade. But to be honest, unless you intend to hone razors for others, it may be all the Jnat you'll ever need. I later bought a slightly larger Ozuku and the two provide very similar edges. I couldn't be happier with them both. And yes, you will need nagura as well. At least Mejiro and a tomo.

Thanks for this advice too. If I get a Shoubudani Type 100 I was planning to get a tomo nagura and a set of three Asano nagura as well (Botan, Tenjyou and Mejiro) so that's good advice.

Originally Posted by kiwichris

I agree that the history that goes with stones from these mines is amazing. I'm learning more about that every day.

I can remember sitting in So's lounge room when I bought my first Shoubu-Dani stone off him. It was a Suita. I think he said it was Yoritomo who opened the mine 12th century & no one could use the stones other than for military purposes for some hundreds of years.

Originally Posted by kiwichris

​Good morning folks

I have been doing a bit (which means a lot) of research into Jnats which includes a lot of reading on this site. I am a beginner honer (in fact have never honed anything in my life) and am interested in getting a Jnat for refreshing my razors. Anyway, I have been looking at japaneserazors.com and am a little bit confused. There are a number of what are called 'Shuobudani Type 100' stones, which look like good value stones for a beginner like me. I have also found on the same site other stones called 'Shoubudani Kiita LV 4' which are much more expensive.

My question is this: are these stones from the same quarry that is just misspelt or are there both Shuobudani and Shoubudani quarries that are different?

I've tried to find the answer myself including reading up on the history of Jnats and the quarries, but cannot find any reference to Shuobudani except in relation to these Type 100 stones. Any further enlightenment would be great!

Thanks

the japanese kanji writing for this is 菖蒲谷
the japanese spelling written with kana is しょうぶだに
written according to Hepburn romanization system is Shoubudani

Here it is example of such a stone on japanese online shop:
http://item.rakuten.co.jp/furuta/syoubutani-asagi1/

You can use some text to voice online service like Japanese Text-to-Speech service or NeoSpeech Text-to-Speech voices | Interactive TTS Demo | TTS SDK to listen to japanese pronounciation by copypasting the kanji to online form.
These systems provide the synthesized voice very close to real natural japanese speaker.

You can find some more text to voice systems for Japanese here Japanese text-to-speech online. Convert Japanese text to sound online for free. Online Japanese speech synthesizers